April 14, 2023

Ep. 76 | Real Men in a Fake World w/ Michael Foster

In this interview, Michael Foster imparts practical wisdom (the map and compass) to get you heading in the right direction, and then encourages you to start walking. He shares how he structures his week for maximum productivity, why being respected is…
Life on Target
Life on Target
Ep. 76 | Real Men in a Fake World w/ Michael Foster

In this interview, Michael Foster imparts practical wisdom (the map and compass) to get you heading in the right direction, and then encourages you to start walking. He shares how he structures his week for maximum productivity, why being respected is better than being liked, how to find a good church, and how men should conduct themselves in real life AND online.

Be sure to check out his new documentary: It’s Good To Be A Man: Map to Manhood out today (14 April 2023) on Cannon+!

Relevant Links:

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript is auto generated with some minor edits


Nathan Spearing: Welcome back to the life on target podcast. I’m your host, Nathan spearing, bringing you my interview with Michael Foster on the day that his new documentary, that It’s good to be a Man documentary has been released on Canon+. I saw a screener copy of this y’all the week before last. I think it was, and it is phenomenal.

Essentially what Michael describes as a topographical map and compass and admonition to start walking in the right direction as a man. So enjoy this conversation with Michael Foster, where we discuss practical theology, how to order your life, your time to develop physical, spiritual, mental disciplines, how to lead well, how to be active.

In your community, how to find a good church. Also some really good practical wisdom about how to conduct yourself online, how to show wisdom in the language that you choose to use in the [00:01:00] company that you are to, that you can build allegiances in the time of war, or really rally the troops to the right call.

So some really great conversations, Michael Foster, some helpful guides tips, frameworks that he uses in his life. Hope you enjoy the conversation. Let’s get to the interview.

Nathan Spearing: prepping for this interview,

I’ll listen to your most recent Eric

Conn interview, and

Michael Foster: Oh


Nathan Spearing: also, interview that you did in September, I think it’s really interesting, uh, one of the things I think when I first heard about you, besides reading your book, um, understanding that you’re kind of going into these, uh, cultures that aren’t typically Christian and having to, give a defense for the gospel,

so the guy interviewing you as an atheist and my best friend in the military was an atheist or is an atheist. Um, and we get along better. Then I get along with most men in the church sometimes, the sad [00:02:00] reality and his comment on that interview was, you’re real, you’re philosophically, thought through.

You believe it, you act on it, and I can, I can get along with you better than most people in his own circles. Um,

Michael Foster: Hmm,

Nathan Spearing: so I guess, little bit of a longer lead in, but I, I wanted to cue that up for, maybe how your upbringing and how that brought you to where you are now, in some of those things.

Michael Foster: Sure. So you would like me to start right there?

Nathan Spearing: Heck yeah.

Michael Foster: So I grew up, um, split between two families, my mom and dad, and we ha I have two younger brothers, uh, one who’s passed away from a drug, drug addiction. And uh, that was about six months ago, seven months ago. And then another brother that lives out in, uh, Montana. And my mom, uh, my mom got pregnant with me, [00:03:00] uh, before she was married, but with, for my father of course, who was a, uh, out on probation, Excon, I think as I recall, he was in jail for Grand Theft Auto.

They met at a disco. And uh, he comes from a really rough kind of street family out there in Kansas City. Um, really kind of just poor normal in that sense, you know, it’s not like they’re a gang or something, but, uh, but tough guys. And, um, his father was into new age stuff. Um, A difficult man beat my dad, and he actually wrote two books that were a cultic books, um, still find them on, um, Amazon, the Spirit gave him a special message to bring back to, to earth. Um,

that’s your grandfather,

Fred Foster ii. My dad is Fred Foster iii. My, um, my mom is, uh, [00:04:00] the daughter of a, uh, world War II survivor, my grandmother. Um, so she was in the BA Battle of Keansburg and in the bombing of Dresden, um, the product of a Jewish mistress and my, um, great-grandfather.

And she, um, came over here and fell in love. Married a man. That man, um, they were pres, he was a Presbyterian, uh, but he got cancer and died when mom was 11. So, um, I, my mom didn’t have a real clear Christian tradition or anything like that. My dad grew up in the middle of nothing, and that’s what I was born into.

That’s one side of the family. The other side of the family is I went away. Uh, I was a difficult little boy, like had, uh, back then everyone had ADHD and they stick you on methylate, which is, uh, Ritalin. And nowadays we have like Adderall or whatever that’s, uh, a little more even in the way the dosage is delivered, but still problematic in ways.

I got sent in away to live with my grandmother, [00:05:00] who again survived the bombing of Dresden. The woman was hard as nails. She had married a correctional officer, um, which is the only grandfather I knew. So I had a lot of, um, uh, with them. I had a lot of structure with my, my parents. I didn’t, but everywhere I went, all religion was treated with respect.

But as like traditions,

Nathan Spearing: Mm-hmm.

Michael Foster: myth, Or practices or something that, you know, it’s, it’s almost like this person has that God and that person has that God, but they’re all like, good in their own way or whatever. None. But none of them are real. None of them are real. And so that’s how I, that’s really my, that’s my religious background.

Kind of a nothing, um, uh, really never thought of myself as anything, um, until my little brother Wayne professed to be a Christian. And then suddenly everyone in my family started going to church besides me, and they all were telling me [00:06:00] how, um, I shouldn’t be an atheist. And I was agnostic, atheist, but mostly agnostic.

I just didn’t care. And it wasn’t until they started getting real preaching, and this was my late teens that I, um, got, got pushy back in my late teens. I, I transitioned from kind of a comic book, art, art nerd, um, to an athlete. And I started playing, uh, lots of sports. I, uh, swam. I ran the two mile through shot put and discus.

Not very good at either of those. Uh, played football, defensive, end, tight end, uh, ran cross country. Uh, I quit football, started running cross country to keep my weight down for my main sport, which was wrestling. So I wrestled one 60 and 1 71 was team captain. And, uh, and went through kind of a transition, uh, from kind of booky, sort of geek to, um, I, , uh, I, I finally kind of had my own, uh, status of cool in high school [00:07:00] and, uh, girlfriends and all that. And, uh, then it just all seemed so empty, man, honestly, like when you’re kind of grow up poor and nerdy and not with lots of friends and suddenly have lots of friends and have some status and can carry your own, you’re not scared anymore.

You know, I started lifting weights and went from benching 50 pounds to, you know, 250 pounds the first year I started lifting and then squatted, you know, close to four and, um, really got, got strong and confident and just, uh, but to me it was very vapid, uh, like hanging out with the cool kids. Like they weren’t, weren’t nearly as fun.

As the dorks. And then, um, in the middle of all that, I got invited to a, um, to this whole basketball tournament. And, and someone there, this, uh, it was a trick. It was a beta switch sort of deal. They had this guy get up on stage and preach the [00:08:00] gospel. And what happened was, real simple is I got saved the word, uh, the word preached regenerated me.

I was born again. Like, uh, it with, there was not any apologetic argument or anything like that. I just was not a Christian. And then I was, and I remember going outside

Nathan Spearing: were you then?

Michael Foster: 17

Nathan Spearing: Okay.

Michael Foster: and, uh, so then I, I went out and I prayed to the Lord, look, I don’t understand any of this. This is all happening very fast. Be patient with me.

Then, um, I kind of ran with the rough crowd and, uh, you know, They wouldn’t let me hang out with them anymore cuz they like, they, one, I remember once I went over and they were watching a porn video and I was like, come on guys, let me in. They’re like, you can’t, you’re a Christian. Christians don’t watch porn anymore.

Come on Mike. You gotta be real. You gotta be real about it. I was like, come on dude, let me in. Come on. [00:09:00] No, they wouldn’t let me in. And um, it’s kind of weird to look back on people, guys just saying, no, you made your decision. You be who you are. And, um, which was good because I had been, I had, I’d gotten an expelled from school prior to becoming a Christian and got arrested a lot for, um, B&E and uh, things like that.

And, uh, and we were getting really bold, but suddenly these non-Christian friends of mine from a real place of affection, kind of mocking as guys will do, but I think wanted me to be real. So I, I was, it was funny. Like they, I went all in. I went all in and, um, But I never lost those friendships. I had a real hard time sharing the gospel with my, my best friend who, uh, today I would say he is a theist, but not a Christian, unless some changes happened that I’m not up to.

But, uh, he was the best man in my wedding. And when he was the best man in my wedding, was still an atheist, you know? [00:10:00] But I remember I hadn’t ever really preached the gospel straight to him for like two years. And we go out to this Chinese restaurant together, we say, Hey, let’s go to a restaurant, and we get together.

And, uh, he said, so what’s going on? I was like, look, I gotta ask, I gotta ask for forgiveness, man. Uh, I’m just like, for what? And I said, dude, you’re going to hell. And I didn’t tell you, and it was wrong for me to tell you, uh, not tell you. And to hold it back. I, I, you know, I just, you know, I, I need to tell you like, Jesus saved me.

It’s for real. God’s real. We were wrong. All that stuff we did was wrong. And he was like, yeah, I know, man, but I appreciate it. That’s didn’t get saves or anything like that, but um, but he knew, and I’ve just found to be a Christian, you need to think about it. When you look at the sermon on the mount and you’ve got these, these two truths you gotta balance.

One is do not practice [00:11:00] righteousness before men to be seen by them. Right? Chapter six, the very beginning, but in chapter five he says, let your light shine so they may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven. Well, those two things are, they fit together perfectly. The issue is don’t be fake, right?

Those that are practicing their righteousness to be seen, it’s performative. They’re putting on a show so they’re not being open and honest about what they really are, but they really are something different. Who they are in public is very different than who they are in private. Same thing with don’t hide.

If you love God, don’t hide it. Be open and honest about it. Let your private match your public. They’re really two, uh, two sides to the same coin. And so what I would say, um, is that key to your life being used as a tool of God to provoke people to ask you for the hope, that’s in you. Is Is just being real?

Just be a Christian. I talk about church, I talk about God. I talk, I talk [00:12:00] openly about Jesus. I talk openly about scripture. That’s who I am, man. Like I’m not gonna change that. I, I try to stay appropriate to the circumstance I’m in. If I’m invited to speak on manhood at a non-Christian, uh, conference, I’ll still talk about the gospel, but also talk about manhood in general.

Just like when I go speak at trade shows on supply chain issues, I don’t have an alter call at the end. You know, I don’t do that. Talk about supply chain issues. Yeah, it’s broken, it’s messed up, let me tell you. But, um, I also don’t, I think it’s just what we need is Christians that aren’t. Showy performative goobers, which is what we have, uh, all around e especially in a social media age where everything is voyeuristic and performative.

And so I’ve been really blessed, uh, by God to have opportunities to go hang out with non-Christians. Guys like Jack Donovan. Jack Donovan and I are acquaintances. Jack Donovan wrote The Way of Men. Um, I’ve, I’ve talked to Jack many, many times, hung out with Jack by the pool many times, talked to him [00:13:00] openly about my faith, um, about Christianity.

Uh, I’ve moderated panels with him on it. Um, and Jack, uh, again, is one of those, he’s, he’s a non-Christian once upon a time, uh, uh, endorsed a homosexual way of life. Um, I don’t think that’s true of him anymore. Um, but having opportunities to talk to guys like that and people in kind of the influencer space that speak on masculinity and men’s issues, it’s been.

A real opportunity and I find for you to just be real with people, that God opens doors,

Nathan Spearing: Hmm. So talk about, you know, that that works its way out. Obviously you’re, you got a book, you run a conference, you are active. I guess what probably Twitter would be the most, uh, active medium maybe in the social media sphere for you. Correct. Or what would you say? Like, you have a, but you’re, but you’re,

Michael Foster: Yeah,

Nathan Spearing: Yeah.

So, you know, [00:14:00] you know, talk about one of the interviews that you, both interviews I listened to you talk about the, the reality is doing stuff in real life is where it’s at. And you know, when you, when you, and you, you, you spoke at to people being critical of you online and then you met ’em in li in real life and you realize that, oh, I shouldn’t really have put any thought or weight to what that guy was saying, cuz I can tell his, his life’s a mess.

So, you know, maybe, uh, the sermon of the mount’s a great tee up to that. So as a, as a Christian man who is, you know, and you’re, you, you give a good, uh, I actually talked to a young man who came to church last weekend and he said his dad got your book and read it and was really pissed. And he said, how come nobody told me this stuff? know, And, and, and he was, he was mad. You know, he’s like, I, I sh somebody should have told me this. [00:15:00] And, you know, you spoke with, with, uh, Eric Kahn, his episode will link that for sure about the way that God’s ordered this. There should be men on the path. You know, the, the episode that’s coming out prior to yours.

I’ve talked to a 70 year old pastor in our church and he talked about there’s a path that you’re gonna walk that I’ve already walked. You know, not exactly the same, but it’s not really all that different. And you can be prepared for the road ahead, you know, and he talked about being in the national park and, and basically saying, Hey, that’s not the way of the parking lot.

And that weighs the, the treacherous way for you guys. The storms rolling in. You need to take the right here, you need to go down the parking lot, you need to. And they’re like, oh, no, no, I got it. I’m gonna keep going. And. And he was, had to kind of go to other members of the group, say, Hey, don’t, don’t go that way.

That was a real life story in, in the national parks. But he is like, that’s, that’s the way it should be [00:16:00] for men. You know, that, that there’s somebody saying, I’ve been that way. Uh, let me save you the trouble. I’ll going that way. Go this way. Uh, and so I guess that book’s, you’re doing that in that book, but then, you know, there’s other initiatives.

So just talk

about your methodology for that.

Michael Foster: yeah, so. It’s weird when you write a book and kind of get some social media clout. You know, I live, I have clout in a very small pond, right? Kind of the, um, reformed Christian broke outta that a little bit, which is cool. But, um, that’s where a lot of people know me. And then, um, you get a lot of people who argue with you or, or even a lot of people that really like you, right?

Sometimes meeting the people that think you’re awesome is a little disturbing. You meet ’em and you’re like, life’s a total wreck. And I, I could think of this one guy who called me up and told me how his wife’s a feminist and all this, or kind of, kind of a feminist and how she doesn’t wanna have [00:17:00] kids.

Nathan Spearing: Mm-hmm.

Michael Foster: And uh, I said, well, how many kids do you have? And he said, well, I wanna have 10 kids. And I said, okay. Well, how many kids do you have? She’s like, we don’t have any. And I said, well, That would intimidate any person to go from zero to 10, man. Like, you know, they tend to come one at a time. Why don’t you dial it back a little bit to then, um, he’s like got all these deep theological questions, but then he is working two part-time jobs and they’re renting a room in a house and, and then he comes out to our church and, you know, uh, he’s not a bad guy, but I meet his wife and I think, you know what, she’s the one that’s got it more together than he does actually.

Um, she’s a pretty reasonable person. And, um, and this guy, I don’t know, he is kind of shaky. So then, um, then within a couple weeks, uh, he, he confesses to some of us that he has a long-term porn problem and lots of doubts and all this stuff about his faith and it’s been going on for years and [00:18:00] years and years.

And, um, maybe I’m really not regenerative or whatever. And then, um, then kind of disappears out of our circle. And then I, uh, ask a friend, Hey, hey, you still got that guy’s number? Cuz I, he popped in my head and I, I thought to myself, I bet he has rejected the faith and has divorced, popped in my head, right?

So I text him and feel, kind of feel him out. And that’s exactly, he had, didn’t like, straight up, rejected the faith, but stopped going to church and really not into that anymore. And his wife had left him.

Nathan Spearing: Mm.

Michael Foster: And, uh, so then you hear these guys talk about how all these women are terrible and all that stuff.

And there are terrible women out there. There are terrible, women. Monsters. Predators, right? Like, people need to be willing to say that these are like the women, the women we see in Proverbs. Um, those evil women in Proverbs five and seven are real and they exist. But when you’re talking to [00:19:00] people online, how do you know what’s what?

You don’t know, like you’re depending on them to have the self-awareness and the self discernment to tell you the truth and to be reading the circumstances. Right? Right. And I’ll tell you what, if you didn’t grow up in a healthy family where you receive criticism and praise rightly, your ability to know who you are, rightly is severely impaired.

And, and so we have all these guys online talking about who’s great, who’s terrible and whatever. people always talk about how awesome my marriage is. Your marriage is awesome. How do you know? cause of pictures on Instagram, pictures on Instagram, you, you can filter everything out, right? Like, how do you know you don’t know nothing?

Man, it is great. Thank you. But you don’t know that, right? Even now, I could be lying to you. And so we live in this age where everyone can pretend to [00:20:00] have it together.

Nathan Spearing: Mm-hmm.

Michael Foster: online and it can be very performative and showy. And, um, and that is what you get into politics and so much. It’s a big game. It’s a big show where people talk about what they’re doing and they’re doing nothing, right?

And so then you’re like, okay, I’m sick of it. I’m sick of games. I’m sick of show, I’m sick of, uh, filtered Pictures I want real life.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah.

Michael Foster: um, where can you experience that? you experience that in your local community, in your actual church where people know who you are and know whether or not your kids respect you and your wife loves you knows whether or not, you know, how many, how many people do you, how many people are on Twitter posting post physique, right post physique?

So, you know, you got these guys that, you know, a lot of times you got people whose lives out of sort physically, so they don’t, they lack self-discipline there. And they’re big fat slobs. And so people will [00:21:00] come and kind of mockingly say, post physique more or less saying, your life’s out of order elsewhere.

So who are you to talk? But how many of those people are fat slops? Right? How many of the people using that hashtag are erected? A good number of them are. A good number of them are. Doesn’t that strike them as hypocrisy? D d, you know? And so who are you for real? Who knows You? Are you known by anyone? Do you have brothers that know when you’re lying?

You know, uh, do you have brothers that know when you’re struggling without you telling them? Do you guys, do you have people in your life that know what’s going on in your marriage? You know, you can put all this show online and, and after a while you meet people and you’re like, wow. You know, I know they mean well, but they, they don’t live out their principles and you get tired of it.

And so you focus on your church, you focus on your local community, focus on those closest [00:22:00] to you and, um, you don’t wanna get drawn into it. For us, it’s East River Church is my passion, is where I want to be. These are the people that I love. I got together with some guys this morning, we’re going through Jay Oswell Sanders book on spiritual leadership.

It’s kind of a classic, you know, not a perfect book, but a helpful book talking about struggles in our business life and with managers and raises and annual reviews and wife respect, all that real stuff, right? And um, and there’s a one point this morning’s conversation where we all had kind of the same problem and no one had an answer and it was just like, oh, we’re not alone.

We’re not alone in this. Right. Um, and then here in town, I’m, I’m trying to, I’m deeply involved in business in my county and I do a lot of economic development working alongside the, the village, um, and the county. Um, Uh, in different ways and trying to bring jobs here and employ people and, uh, [00:23:00] and these people see that I’m for real.

It’s funny, I get along with liberals pretty well in this county, because most liberals outside of big cities are not for transgender weirdos dancing around in libraries, They, they think that’s weird as crap. Um they, want safe neighborhoods. They want jobs, they want, shopping options.

They, want what almost anyone wants.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah.

Michael Foster: And when they see you invest into the community, it’s kinda hard for them to totally, like, I don’t really agree with him on that thing, but he is pretty good for the community. That gives you opportunity to say, well, I wish you would agree with me on that one thing more than seeing that I’m good for the community.

I am good for the community, but repent and trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord. and so just getting involved locally, It changes the nature of the discourse because online people are like, tell me your labels. What’s your labels? Are you [00:24:00] theono, reconstructionist, pedo, communis, pedo, Baptist, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Right. Um, that’s like robotic nonsense online

Nathan Spearing: or may not, uh, be a, uh, grounds to get blocked by me on some of my platforms.

Michael Foster: Yeah, exactly.

Nathan Spearing: like,

Michael Foster: And it’s funny,

Nathan Spearing: me your labels. No, you’re blocked.

Michael Foster: and so, but real people kind of defy labels a lot of times. Right? Take, let’s take John MacArthur. So John MacArthur, we have this Baptist who’s a dispensationalist. So basically, and I think even like some sort of pre-trib sort of dispensational or midrib or something like that. So he thinks there’s a rapture.

Um, so those guys tend to kind of have a holy huddle, let it all burn down attitude, but. John MacArthur doesn’t live that way. He builds institutions, helps plan a lot of churches, and, and took on, took [00:25:00] on the state of CO or the city of LA pretty hardcore and one, right? And so you’re like, well, he’s at odds with his labels.

Well, I’d rather be with people who live out the substance then get their labels. Right Now labels are helpful only if they refer to the actual, actual truth. And how do you know? Like people online, you get your labels, all right? You build your little theological fortress. Um, but do you live it? Like how many posts do I know that are waiting for America to fall?

And then they’ll, they’ll crawl out of their bunkers with their bullets and beans and rebuild that glorious messianic kingdom or whatever they are. Functionally dispensationalist is what they are.

Nathan Spearing: Mm-hmm.

Michael Foster: they’re waiting for the fall of all things, and then they’ll build it. What? You can’t do something now.

You can’t be involved. Like what was not Nehemiah involved, was not Daniel involved, Esther involved. We can’t, let’s say if we are here in America, um, in a [00:26:00] sort of, uh, exilic like time, um, we still can have influence. And so I’m looking for people that have that sort of attitude and uh, and I wanna work with them and I want to know, I want to know the people I’m in the, the trenches with, so to speak.

And, um, because our profession in, in life should not be dramatically at odds, but all, you know, online is people’s profession plus the, the sort of, um, crafted curated pitchers they put on one. Right. And sometimes you can say like, well, A guy that is grossly obese, lecturing me on self-control

Nathan Spearing: Mm-hmm.

Michael Foster: doesn’t make a lot of sense.

And I think that’s fair grounds for criticism. Um, but I think we all would be calling BS on each other in person. That’s what [00:27:00] we need to do, right? That’s what people need. And you need godly fraternity that says, ah, you say, you say that’s what you’re about, but I heard you talk to your wife this way the other day.

Or you say you’re all about family, but you’re always on your phone when your kids are around, right? You say that you believe that the God makes rich the hands of the diligent, but not enough to be diligent. Right? How do you know these? You know? Right. You gotta actually know these people. And so I think more and more I’m just constantly pressuring people that direction and it’s so easy to become seemingly important online for like some little.

Moment. It’s funny, as soon as someone gets like 5,000 followers on Twitter, they’re writing little manuals on how to build a Twitter falling, you know, here buy my manual on how to get more Twitter followers. You got 5,000 twi, like, you know, that’s like nothing. I have 27 or whatever, 27,000. That’s like nothing compared.

That’s not a major account. It’s just a major account for people in our, our world cuz we’re [00:28:00] so tiny, itty bitty, like percentage

Nathan Spearing: talked about the stats for C R E C and PCA compared to the national population, I think it is worthwhile to say they should know more about us, uh, than they do. We had, uh, transgender troop acting troop kind of book a local theater here, and, uh, it was great conversation with the men, uh, here, this external thing.

But the reality that we came back to between, me, talking with my wife, there’s a group text, there’s a, Saturday morning prayer meeting with just men involved. It’s the sessions meeting and talking about it’s what’s our actions gonna be. And the reality is, is if we showed up and protested this thing, they’d be like, who are y’all?

You know, because they haven’t seen us everywhere doing the economic, you know, and, and Doug talks about in that 12 simple steps or 11 simple steps, you know, like, we all want to go for city [00:29:00] council. And I heard you say that in person when I was, was up there hanging out with you during county before country.

Like there’s a lot of mid-level non-g glorious bureaucratic positions that have leverage to get things done that matter, you know? Um, and, uh, so talk, talk a little bit about that, how you. You’re, you’re essentially a shaman in the digital area trying to tell people to come back into the real world and you’re doing it.

What’s, how do you break that down? When, when do you say, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna plug in to the matrix. Like you’re a tent maker too, you have a pretty good sized family. So

Michael Foster: kids. Yep.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah, so a guy that is, is trying to lead well, himself and his family, but then also shepherd a, a group of, you know, how, where, how do you break that out?

How do you prioritize, you know, your day and, and or your week or [00:30:00] what’s, what are the strategies you use there to, to be faithful?

Michael Foster: Yeah, that’s hard actually. I work, uh, 32 to 40 hours a week at my day job, and then I gotta like at least 20 hours at. Church and I got the family. Um, and so I have to really think a lot about time management.

I have to think about, uh, I’ve, I’ve really prioritized my, the quality of my sleep. Um, and that comes out of just the pressure of stepping up. And as you mature as a man, you basically have options is that, uh, there’s an elevator and you have some ceiling you can go to, but as you go each level, you either, uh, are willing to throw things aside and take on new responsibilities, or you get off right.

And so some of us will never get to our top level because we’re not, you know, I’m not, I’m not willing to [00:31:00] lose television. I’m not willing to put aside, um, drinking. I’m not willing to, uh, prioritize, um, my health. I’m not willing to do X, Y, Z. And so you get off at that level and that’s where you’re at. And in some of us, it’s like, well, if you’re, if you can basically manage yourself and your family, that’s pretty good.

Um, but if, uh, if you have a godly ambition to lead others well, you want to, you want to get to that. Whatever your top floor is, you want to get as close as you can. And for me, that’s meant, uh, making some really hard decisions on where I spend my time and what I’m willing to do. Uh, I used to spend a lot of time counseling men.

I don’t anymore, unless you’re in my church and I have people who throw money at me all the time. To do that. And uh, that makes me sad. Honestly. I wish, I wish they had a pastor they could trust or just a good [00:32:00] brother. You know, I think what men need more than anything are friends and fathers. Right? But, uh, but some offer me exorbitant amounts, whereas like a thousand dollars for one hour of your time, number one.

Like, that’s cool, but I feel bad taking your money. Like, cuz first off, what I’m gonna tell you in 10 minutes is probably pretty close to what I’m gonna tell you in one hour. So I’m not worth the a hundred dollars a made at my friend and, uh, know your value. I do, I know my value and that’s not it. Um, and uh, so I, I don’t do that anymore.

The money’s not enough because it, the time is more valuable, right? The time with my children, with my family, with my church. That’s, that’s been a hard decision. Um, I’ve had to decide to change my rhetoric to some degree is that I think in times of war, We use stronger language and hyperbole. You know, I was pointing this out on my sermon the other day.

You know, when you’re, when you’re getting ready to get on the beaches of Normandy, you’re no one’s in the boat saying, all [00:33:00] right guys, the boat is gonna stop. It’s gonna get this far into the water. And then you guys in the front are gonna walk out a bunch. You’re gonna die really quick. And probably the next guy, you’re gonna go a little further, but you guys will probably die as well.

And then you guys are gonna get up here, and then you’re gonna walk up the hill and a bunch you will die and lose arms and stuff. But eventually you’ll get up there and you need to incapacitate the machine gunner. You don’t talk like that. You’re like, all right lads, you know, we’re about to charge the gates of hell.

You know? And you know, it is a very strong language cuz you’re moving people to action and you’re motivating them. Right? That makes sense. In that context. When you’re in a boardroom and you’re talking through precision and strategy, um, that’s time for a more nuanced voice. That’s time for a cooler head.

That’s the time. And that’s hard to, you know, to switch gears to fit your voice to the circumstances. Not easy. It requires a lot of discipline and especially when we grew up in a [00:34:00] environment where our whole life we’ve been told to act like girls more or less. And, and, um, and then so I, you know, I’ve watched what’s happened with kind of 2022 right now, and I do think there’s a vibe changing, you know, um, that you’re, if you’re around, you’re picking it up.

Yeah. I, I, I, I call it the flags came down. Um, and that’s my reference to nine 11. I don’t know how, I forget how old you are, Nate. I think you’re

Nathan Spearing: I was a junior in high school.

Michael Foster: Junior. Yeah. So I was a sophomore in college, um, in nine 11. Basically everyone was a patriot for like 18 months. Like everyone flags everywhere.

But about 18 months in, people were like, uh, okay. And the flags came down, right? And um, So I think the flags are coming down with kind of the post covid with everybody, and there’s a desire to go back to normal. Now, I don’t think we’re ever going back to normal in a lot of ways, and I think a ton of people have woke [00:35:00] up, but there’s a lot of people that have gone back to sleep that we need to pool with us, right?

We need to get those folks that they’re still in play, but they’re already settling down. If you use really heightened speech right now, it, you could actually push ’em away. And that, that sort of discipline to, to needle the, the, the thread to needle right now, that’s hard. As you get to a different level, you have to, there’s a time again to charge in the gates of hell lads, you know, and there’s other times to back it off.

I think I’m at a stage of my life, 42 and, um, with, uh, really kind of in the, in the middle of my v uh, vocational life, both as a minister and as a sales professional and sales management. Where the discipline that I have to have is really difficult, and I come from a broken family and, uh, I have, uh, a strong personality and emotions [00:36:00] and, um, love a good fight, love a good argument, you know?

Um, but so I think I’ve had to decide like, okay, what matters most, well, few things I’ll tell you that matter most is, uh, I have to start my day ahead of everybody. So I wake up before everyone in my family, 4 45, um, to, I’m, I’m about five 30 now, but when I’m on, when I’m on my game, it’s 4 45. Wake up, go for a walk.

Don’t look at my phone. Do not look at your phone for first hour. Screw those people. Don’t let them determine your day. You look at your phone first thing in the morning. Your morning’s not yours. It’s already someone else. Whoever texts you, whatever crazy person, comment on your Facebook, whatever’s going on in your email, you’re gonna allow that time your, your mental space to be taken from you.

So for me, I like to have that time to, to just, uh, clear my head, have a cup of coffee, walk and pray with God, and then look at, uh, what scripture has to tell me after that. Then, um, I apply it out my day, and then [00:37:00] after that, I, uh, write. I write for about an hour every, every morning. And, um, and so that before I get to, um, work, which is between eight 30 and nine, I’ve, uh, kissed my wife and my kids, drove my son to work, talked to him, uh, pray, pray with my family to start the day.

Uh, I got some teenage boys are intense and so giving mom a lot of trouble in homeschooling. So, uh, try to be the one to set the thermostat in the home. I’ve, I had my time in scripture. I have my time to prayer. I know what my, uh, objectives are for the day, and then I’ve done a good, fair bit of writing on whatever project I’m working on and prep for my sermon.

I do that Monday through Friday. Uh, I take most Fridays off, and, uh, Fridays are dedicated to meeting with people in my church and to theoretically doing sermon prep. That doesn’t always happen. Uh, Saturday morning is like, it is like the first four hours of Saturday, just me and my wife hanging out. Let those kids veg out on cartoons.

I don’t care. [00:38:00] Right? Whatever. Like they’re, they’ll have to just survive the cartoon pollution once a week, I guess. So, um, and, um, it’s not crazy stuff, but they’re watching cartoons and Emily

Nathan Spearing: using some tools to get an uninterrupted time with your wife?

Michael Foster: Yeah, leave us alone. Go watch Looney Tunes. Um, but, um, but then, um, the, the second half of Saturday I, I finish theoretically again, finish my sermon, and then the evening, it’s like family night. And then, uh, Sunday morning, I wake up at four, make sure my sermon’s done. Go to church. And then rest in the, uh, afternoon, usually come home, pop over a bottle of wine, drink talk, have a great meal, and, uh, sleep and do it all over again.

But for me, everything depends on my sleep. And when I wake up and I, you know, you look at all these great men, most of them had a really strict morning time routine, but it’s real practical. I, who cares? [00:39:00] Like if you get up at 4 45 at six, it’s really do you get the things done that you need to get done in the morning.

But I found that that’s really important. And then I, uh, organize priority based on family, church, and business and, uh, and, and keep those things straight. And then I just deny, I just say no a whole lot. You have to learn to say no. Like, I think that’s like so many guys. Um, it, it’s better to be respected than to be liked.

And, uh, respect in time will engender appreciation.

Nathan Spearing: Mm-hmm.

Michael Foster: or liking will not necessarily engender respect. There’s a lot of guys who are like, well, he is a nice guy. I like him. Do you respect him? Ah, but it’s pretty hard to, to dislike someone deeply that you respect and respect comes from you managing your boundaries.

Can you help me move tonight? I cannot do that. I’m sorry. Can you even come for a couple minutes and would not be able to do [00:40:00] that? Um, yeah, I can’t do that. And just the ability to say no, uh, is something I think a lot of men lack because they wanna be liked. That’s prob like nice guys. We want, but I wanna be respected.

And that respectable means you know where your priorities are. And I think that’s, that’s really hard when you’re figuring that stuff out. I dunno if that’s helpful, but those are some thoughts I have.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah, I, I just released, uh, are you on mission or running errands? And I, you know, I, I, I, um, I got a guy helping me, you know, systematize my business cuz I’m trying to scale and grow that. Um, I’m trying to u use levers that are leverage that’s available to me in the business world. Hiring the right people, training him, well, all these things.

But I was just kind of, he’s a Christian Guy and I was talking to him. I just feel frustrated by the church because I see people being nice and going and helping every time [00:41:00] anything comes up. And I know those guys have families. I know those guys have, and I, I know those guys are looking at me and thinking, well, how, how come the heck you won’t show up at some of these things?

Like, how come you won’t, you know? And it’s, it’s because it’s a second or third tier priority for me, honestly, it’s, I have to decide that my kids are gonna suffer to do this, and I have ranked and stacked it accordingly. And that’s the only way, when something comes up against something else, it’s the only way to, to, to say no is to have, I I, you know, that whole thing, that family, church and, and company and understand, okay, this is a company thing that came up during sermon prep.

You know, first of all, I know your boss, you know, he’s gonna be, uh, respectful for that. You know, I think that men need to do a lot better job of working for the right people versus working for the paycheck. Um, you know, I, I’ve talked about that too. It’s just we can’t keep. Building [00:42:00] productive property for, for people that are, are hostile to our cause because we want a paycheck, you know?

Um, and, and a lot of times that you’re running errands for, uh, Bezos, you know, you’re running errands for Zuckerberg, uh, in a sense, when you’re all in your phone, when you’re not, not where you are supposed to be doing, you’re building his, his, his, uh, market share.

Michael Foster: To tie, kind of tie it together, um, is, um, Christianity life. Reality is not merely something that happens in our head and that is expressed through words. Um, we are physical beings like we are made of matter, and that’s good. Um, to be human, ultimately to be the perfect human is to be resurrected in a body of, of flesh forever.[00:43:00]

Um, and it’ll, uh, same stuff with some different qualities. Uh, post resurrection, like in glorified state. What that, how that works out? It’s hard to say. It’s not totally different. We know that, uh, because of Christ’s body. This is how mysticism slips in. Um, like you, people will tell you that there’s no relationship between, spiritual disciplines and physical disciplines.

I beg to differ. Um, There’s no, there’s no ti uh, tie between self-control of appetites and physical disciplines. How, how does that even make any sense? Like, so if you wanna correct your sleep, there’s a lot of practical things to do, but one of the biggest things that rob us of sleep is anxiety of stress, right?

That leads us to self-medicate, whether through food, Netflix, various forms of blue light alcohol, um, ambient, whatever, you know, uh, but it also keeps up, uh, keeps us [00:44:00] up at night. Well, how do you deal with anxiety? one of the number one ways is to deal with anxiety is through prayer. Um, to go to God, to offload those things, to be reminded that he’s in control.

Probably the second way after that to deal with your anxiety is, is some sort of physical, uh, activity, whether intercourse with your wife or through, uh, like cold showers will, uh, release a ton that’s got about hits, hits you dopamine, uh, wise, almost the same level of, of, of cocaine. Um, and it causes your muscles to contract.

And then if you do a Scottish shower, take that real hot blast at the end. Um, it’ll cause it to relax and release a lot of sort of stress. But people act like that’s unspiritual. Well, I don’t know if it’s unspiritual. What do you, I, where does spirit and body, how do they work in a human being? Like, are we given a manual in scripture?

I just know that if you stay up all night and eat like hell, you’re gonna probably be more susceptible to, to depression. If you [00:45:00] look at naked women on the line, uh, online and masturbate to it, that’s gonna lead to depression. And then that’s gonna lead to you staying up all night and eating crap because you feel bad.

Like where one begins the other end, which one starts with. So where do you start? Will you start with prayer or you start with working out into prayer or prayer into working out like the weird sort of dichotomies where we act like we have to choose one or the other. These things. Go hand in hand and just start somewhere.

But a lot of guys treat themselves like there’s a dichotomy or a hard dichotomy, separation dilemma between spiritual and physical, right? Natural and spiritual. And we need to understand that we are incarnated being, uh, to be man Christ put on flesh to come be like us. So we have flesh and I think what we’re trying to do right now is return the church, uh, back to, [00:46:00] uh, ancient Christianity that was antiotic, but we’re antiotic.

We are pretty gnostic right now. Everything’s like in your head and, um, that you would say something that you would say that someone’s physique says something about their spiritual state is very offensive. And yet everyone knows that. Everyone believes that. Um, It’s not definitive, but it’s just saying there’s a correlation and relationship there.

And, um, there’s, if you’re, if you’re not sleeping right, uh, there’s a spiritual reason behind it, at some level you gotta deal with that. But there’s also physical reasons as well. You gotta deal with that. And, uh, and sadly Christians are going nice. Thinking about this today. What’s the great Christian leadership book right now?

Nathan Spearing: Yeah.

Michael Foster: to be what it is, right? Probably like, I, I, the one that I still go back to is Jay Oswell Sanders Spiritual Leadership. Um, it’s got a little bit of [00:47:00] servant leadership stuff in there. It’s not that bad, but it’s full of a lot of really good practical things. But besides that, I can’t think of one.

So you, what do you depend on? You depend on Jocko Willink, right? Extreme ownership. Um, I like essentialism. I like, uh, stuff like Cal Newport, um, uh, deep work and all that. You’re. Where do, where do the Christians have to go for this practical stuff? Really, I would say Practical Theology is me interacting with a lot of the self-improvement, um, self-development stuff more and, and looking at it from a, a biblical theological lens, critiquing it and bringing in what, what does scripture have to say about this? A lot of those guys are, they’re stumble upon creational truth, just like the Mane did.

You know, uh, you, you guys like Cal Newport, whatever, they start sounding like an old wise pastor at points, you know, like, put your phone down, you know, stop talking to those people. Anyway.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah. [00:48:00] I think that, the trouble with a Christian writing a leadership book right now is that eventually what you’ve accomplished is gonna be the, the proof, I heard you say on, on Eric Conn, like, “I got the following.

I got the platform because the grace of God,” but at the same time, you got it by spending an hour every day of the week writing, submitting it to an editor. Taking the critique, rewriting. You did reps. You know, and that’s, I, as I run small businesses, as I try to create meaningful content to help others, you know, take dominion, hit the mark.

Um, everything is the same in a sense. Like, it’s, it, there’s not a, there’s not a shortcut or a hack to prayer. There’s not a shortcut or a hack to a billion [00:49:00] dollars. There’s not a shortcut or a hack to a six pack. You know, and all these different things are hacks. But I think the Christian leadership book is gotta be, the discipline, the faithfulness in the small, you know, and we’re not, I used to think faithful in the small so that I can be faithful in big.

But now I view it as faithful in the small repeat forever. And the yield is different. Potentially because God does something with it, but it’s not, I’m not doing good. I don’t ever get to say, okay, no more car registration or eating good food because I’m a billionaire now. You know? And so I don’t have to worry about, you know, I don’t have to worry about sleep anymore.

I don’t have to worry about behaviors that lead, like, it’s more about refining all that.

Maybe talk a little bit about, you talk about some of the critiques that you got from the, the Christian, uh, sector about [00:50:00] your book. I know you’ve counseled me on church politics, you know, I’ve asked suit me straight. Like I, I I put my foot in my mouth. Uh, maybe I do it again, maybe I won’t. And, and you know, those men

Michael Foster: If you go out there, if you, if you go, if you go for it, we all will put our foot in our mouth. You know, if you go for it, that’s just the cost of going for it from time to time. Main thing is you call a spade a spade, you’re like, yeah, I probably shouldn’t have said it that way, you know? Or I should, whatever.

But yeah.

Nathan Spearing: yeah. Yeah. I guess to

just talk to, to men where they are locally, they’re looking around, they’re frustrated, what are they doing? How are they, what’s the hierarchy of that?

Michael Foster: Yeah, well see if I can come at it this way. Uh, so a lot of the criticisms of our book were, I’ve, I’m always looking for that three star[00:51:00]

review that would just, or two star review that would just break me where they would find, they would find the thread that you pull that unravels everything and proves that I am in fact an idiot, which I’m willing, you know, I was waiting for that review.

I thought, well, you know, maybe we over, uh, overlooked something. You know, I did a lot of research and we took write, took writing the book Serious. But, you know, we are, it was the first book I ever wrote and, uh, didn’t claim to be experts in all things and believe that we could have made mistakes. But honestly, most of the critiques I see are pretty stupid.

You know, um, pretty foolish of stuff that the language is crass. I don’t really think so. I think it’s kind of straightforward. I think maybe they just live in a little nerdy bubble somewhere, you know? Um, this is, uh, it’s, it’s not like it’s locker room talk or whatever. Like someone said, sex is an engine, uh, is a, is crass.

I said, well, sex is an engine of [00:52:00] productivity. Um, what’s like, what, I can’t say sex. Am I supposed to making love is an engine? Like what is that? Make that better somehow. Um, or that our use of the word bastard and the use of the word bastard. We did make a mistake, so we, uh, did a massive edit on it before we, we, we rewrote the whole book and we accidentally moved a part that used the phrase clueless bastard before we had explained it in the early part of the book.

And we caught that way after the book had been published and it would just have to get fixed next to go around. But, um, originally we explained bastard as, um, Just a guy that hasn’t received the benevolent discipline of a father, which is how scripture uses it In Hebrews 13. It wasn’t a pejorative, it wasn’t a cuss word.

And someone says, um, someone said that we’re like hating on our men are, are by calling bastards. Whoa, whoa, whoa, guys feel that way. Guys feel like there’s something wrong with them. They feel the [00:53:00] lack of a father’s, uh, benevolent discipline in their life. The father’s love. Um, and so they’re looking for a word like, what’s wrong with me?

Why do I feel this way? Well, scripture calls it a bastard illegitimate son that did not receive, uh, correction from their dad cause he didn’t bear his name. So we use that language then, um, it’s, uh, I hear a lot of people say we have a negative view of women. That comes from the assumption that sex, sex is a zero sum game for it.

If for it to be good for a man mean it must be bad to be a woman. That’s their flaw in thinking, not mine. I don’t think that’s true. I think, uh, the better the men, the better the women, the better the women, the better the men. There tends to be a correlation. It’s not perfect. It’s not always that complete parody, but we play off each other.

The the healthier husband, the healthier the wife, generally speaking. Um, and so, uh, there was none of that. And, and people that complained that we didn’t talk about marriage, the opening of the book, the intro says this [00:54:00] book is not about marriage. It’s not about getting a girl, it’s not about being a husband, it’s about being a man.

So a lot of this stuff was basically, this book isn’t what we want it to be. That’s what I heard. It didn’t talk about the stuff that we wanted, and we’re gonna nitpick these things that we think are crass, but we didn’t write it for those people. We wrote it for guys that are frustrated that they know something’s wrong.

That they know that God is a father and Jesus is a man, and yet the churches they go through are pretty effeminate, you know? And people say, well, I go to a reform church, so, so what? Oh, I go to a church that does a covenant renewal, so I go to a church that has all this stuff. Right? You can have all that stuff, right?

And kind of be a feminine in your affect and the way you treat other men. And the fact that the government of the church is still a shadow government of elders, wives, you know, it could, it, it, it could, it doesn’t. A fe of the modern church knows no [00:55:00] theological bounds, sadly. Um, and these guys feel it, and they, and they know something’s not right.

And so we wanted to ans first state, like, there’s nothing wrong with being masculine. Um, here’s how things got messed up. That’s the first seven chapters of the book. Um, and then the second seven chapters are kind of like, here’s how to start to reclaim it. Here’s how we set things right. You know, the gospel first is that, Maybe you didn’t have a dad that, uh, that lovely disciplined you, but you know what?

God, the Father will, right? Uh, God. There’s no, Christian is an orphan. No. Christian is a bastard. Ultimately, they have God as father. God is faithful to send circumstances and individuals into your life to grow you and mature you. And uh, so we wanted to let those guys know, when you look around this world right now, this is not normal.

This is not normal, uh, biblically speaking and really is a weird age to live in. And it’s like, it is [00:56:00] not very common. And so we wanted to give guys hope. And I always tell everyone, we don’t give you GPS instructions, but we give you a topographical map and a compass and say head that way. And the landscape is complicated.

Um, but you’re a man. You’re strong. You’ve got drive. You like to win. You see a mountain, you wanna climb it, see a tree you wanna climb. Right. You see ground, you wanna dig a hole. It’s what we do. We move stuff to make things happen. And um, and so we can point you that direction to some degree it’s cuz we haven’t climbed all those mountains, but we know that’s true north because scripture tells us.

And so that’s what we’re trying to do. And I just say to those guys that are discouraged, um, do not, if you faint the day of adversity, your strength is small. It is a adverse day. And, uh, you, you find the least gay church you can, the most masculine church. Here’s how you know it’s masculine, is that he preaches against all types of [00:57:00] sins, right?

Cause you to trust the grace of God, but no sin is safe. So, um, that’s a good sign that you’re at church because that, that costs, that pastor friendships, costs his wife friendships to preach like that. Um, and be willing to move. I think, uh, be willing to drive far if you have to. Don’t be an idealist. Don’t like, again, like you can click all those theological labels, right?

And still not have the substance. The other thing is find people like that. Have what you want. You see a guy that’s got a good marriage, um, good kids say like, Hey, can I, can we get together on occasion in this chat and force your way into their life? Oh, well why is no one asking me to mentor me? Cause they’re busy.

They’re busy, they’re successful, right? They’re successful. Like, I, I never stop like I sleep and I, I sleep and I spend time with my kids, but I don’t, if I [00:58:00] have an hour, I make use of it. Um, and, but if someone says, Hey, can we talk? Yeah, let’s talk. Can you talk at five? I’ll move around time. Um, people, people love successful driven men, especially if they’re Christian Love guys that want to grow.

It is so satisfying to find someone that wants to go after it. Like in a world full of people that are slothful and lazy and have no ambition to find some guy, be young or be, he’s some guy in his late forties that is screwed up and is fat, but is ready to get it on, get real about it. Those guys are thrilling.

You, you can, you can give people information and plans, but you cannot give them drive that’s on them, right? It’s to find a man with drive. Well, that’s very satisfying. And I would say find men that have marriages and businesses [00:59:00] and conduct themself, um, the way that you want to be and ask for some of their time.

Be respectful. Um, don’t look for a therapist. Look for a mentor therapist. Get together a week, can hear your story and all this stuff. So get some of that, like, tells you how to go at it. It’s like I, I always tell. Everyone thinks when you go to work at a gym, the big muscle bound guys are like super judgmental and nasty or whatever.

Like, I’m like, you haven’t been to many gyms, man. I’ve been lifting my entire adult life, and generally speaking, this is probably not always true, but in my experience, the big muscle bound guys, they’re like the, like the quietest souls you’ve ever met in your entire life. And like the sweetest guys that’ll go out outta the way to give you advice or whatever, cuz they, they love health.

They think it’s great that you’re in there and, um, and they’ll, they’ll give you a lot of tips or whatever. A a lot of men are like that. So that’s why I tell, tell guys like, find somewhere and go get momentum. My favorite analogy is the bike chain. And that’s where the chain [01:00:00] falls off your bike. You turn the bike around, you put the chain on the little gear, and then part of it on the big gear you got, like, you pull it up and get it on the teeth of the chain and you turn the pedals.

And as you turn the pedal, it pops the chain on, right? You don’t line it all up on the teeth. It’s the action. It’s the momentum of doing something that pops the chain onto the bike. So find somewhere and start getting a little momentum. It takes some action and, and make do with where you’re at, right? And, and, and advance into better situations as God opens the door.

Uh, but don’t give up. Don’t surrender. Um, you’re a man. God made you to do great things.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah, I, I heard, uh, James Clear and, uh, Tim Ferris talking about how they, they basically said, Hey, can I get 10 minutes of your time? And I promise, whatever you tell me, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do in a sense, like just get crack the door open. And then come back. [01:01:00] I did it, I did it, I did this, I did this, I did this.

What’s the next step? You know? And that was essentially how they, they proved because that, you know, you’re a busy guy. So if you talk to a guy, he’s like, what should I do? And then you, you think about it, I’ll, Hey, how’s it going? You know, happened this week a guy’s, Hey man, I’m, my marriage, my whatever, where can I be?

I said, Hey, four 30 at church. We gotta, we’ve been doing fire pit before church, so that’s where I’ll be. There’ll be a bunch of men there. You know, I want you to, I’m not gonna go out of the way, I got a full plate, but I am go, I am weekly gonna be at this bonfire with other men. Weekly. I’m be after two. So come to my church, I’ll be there.

And, and then I called, you know, even on the way this interview, how’s it going? What’s going well? Yeah, I probably should be trying to get there. I should be whatever. You know, it’s like, hey man, you can’t drive. Once a week to hang out with the, the caliber of five guys that were around this fire that helped you about prayer and just let you, you know, a 40, 50 year [01:02:00] span of age there. There’s probably not a lot of hope for you, bro. You know, and, and I can’t, can’t be spending time when my own sons aren’t getting enough of my time. You know, my son’s there around the fire, my son’s getting to hear this from a 70 year old, from a 50 year old, from a 27 year old. And we’re talking about it.

And, and that’s getting to a church. I think that, I’ve talked to so many people, they haven’t really looked around where they’re at cuz they’re small. Sometimes there’s probably five or six families. They don’t have to be website building, you know? Um, I know you, I know you’re a busy man. You got things to go.

Give us a quick plug , What are you excited about coming up um, county before Country 2023. I think you set the date for that. Um, what else?

Michael Foster: so, um, really, I, uh, this year I’m just really focusing, uh, I’m not doing very many conferences at all on purpose and just really, uh, digging in deep here in [01:03:00] Batavia. Then county, uh, before Country 2023 is August 31st through like the 2nd of September. It’s, uh, Thursday through Saturday Labor Day weekend distributor focusing on church planting. In starting schools. So Ben Merkel will be there, uh, Garrett Crock, couple other friends of mine. It’ll be a really good time. Um, this year, uh, we’ll have, uh, ac for, uh, all the, all the people that apparently need that. Um, so we got that going on. Um, then I’m hoping to go out to Australia to, to really work with kind of the semi underground church out there that, uh, the Resistance Church of the Covid time and encourage and build them up.

So that’s, um, that’s kind of it for me. I’m in the middle of trying to write two books right now. I am trying to finish ’em. So Na and I are working on, uh, the marriage book. It’s good to be a husband or something like that. Um, trying to write something that’s a little bit different. Uh, so if you’re following me on Facebook right now, there’s like [01:04:00] a ton of marriage content.

That’s why I’m like in the middle of research and writing stuff and. Na. And I have a very particular process where we both write a ton of crap and then we share it with each other and we rip it apart, and then we kind of put it together. So if you ever read, it’s good to be a Man, you’re like, man, it really feels like a very strange voice and doesn’t always sound like Michael, or doesn’t always sound like none.

It’s because it’s where one begins or the other begins it’s, or ends. It’s hard to say. It really is the, uh, product of two brothers working together. I love that kind of about it. That’s, uh, 2023. I’m just gonna fill it up with local stuff here.

Vi Batavia. Welcome to Stop By, drop me a message on Facebook or Twitter, and happy to grab a drink with you if, uh, if you want

for anyone.

Nathan Spearing: Thanks so much for your time. And, uh, we’ll link it all here and, uh, hopefully see you, see you in August.

Michael Foster: Yeah, it’d be great.

Nathan Spearing: Maybe you’ll let me on stage, maybe you won’t. Who knows? We’ll see.

Michael Foster: We’ll see. We’ll see how we feel. I’m gonna put you in a fat [01:05:00] suit.

Nathan Spearing: Awesome. Thanks.

Have a good one.

Michael Foster: Thank you man. God bless.

Nathan Spearing: Now you have it. My interview with Michael Foster. I hope you found it encouraging. Stimulating gave you some things to work on in your life. Maybe if you’re feeling discouraged, you’re encouraged at now that you will. Build your strength that you will continue to walk the path or keep aim. You’ll set an asthma on the map.

Remember Michael fosters new documentary. Is available today. I have put the link in the profile. Also the signup link for county before country, the hard man podcast with Eric Conn interview that I talked about a couple of times throughout the interview. I think it’s worth checking out. They cover a lot of other things about the church culture, et cetera, that we didn’t cover in this.

That was very. Encouraging to me and informative. Check out [01:06:00] those links also Michael’s book. It’s good to be a man link there. And as always, I hope you share this episode with one friend. That you think would find it encouraging. And if you haven’t. Done the one to two. Clicks of the thumb on your favorite podcast app.

That allows you to rate life on target five stars. If you want the extra credit drop a sentence or two. To the interwebs about why you think this podcast is valuable. It always helps. You know, I’ve heard from a lot of people that listen to podcasts in the space that they were recommended, this podcast and their feed. And so when you rate and review.

It helps us show up alongside other podcasts, listen to by you and your friends. Helps us get the word out. Helps us spread wisdom from guys like Michael Foster. Hope you have a [01:07:00] good one.