December 23, 2022

Ep. 60 | The Renaissance of Truth with Will Spencer

Will Spencer is an educated world traveler who spent two years abroad in search of the truth by immersing himself in almost all the prominent religious experiences on multiple continents. It wasn’t until he returned back to the United States in 2019…
Life on Target
Life on Target
Ep. 60 | The Renaissance of Truth with Will Spencer

Will Spencer is an educated world traveler who spent two years abroad in search of the truth by immersing himself in almost all the prominent religious experiences on multiple continents. It wasn’t until he returned back to the United States in 2019 that the truth found him. His story is miraculous! Now he’s on a mission to set others free with the truth, so of course we took some time to discuss many hard truths that men need to embrace if they want to realize their full potential.

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Nathan Spearing : Welcome back to The Life On Target podcast. I’m your host, Nathan Spearing, ringing you. My interview today with Will Spencer of the Renaissance of Men, the Renaissance of men, guides men to their purpose, ignites their passion for life and restores them to a place of honor and their families, community and society, and will lives out that every day of his.

He is producing phenomenal content podcasts hosts on social media, and one of the things I particularly like about Will is his ability to not use Instagram or Twitter as just kind of a random stream of consciousness, but he actually sits down and writes long pieces on very thoughtful subject. He lets them sit. He [00:01:00] seeks advice from wise people in his circles, and he refines his message and then he masterfully weaves that in with visual slides. Just a phenomenal brand and aesthetic experience to communicate truth. He has a strong feeling for the truth. A desire to communicate it and even if it’s difficult, even if it is gonna hurt, he’s willing to say those things for the benefit of men everywhere.

And when men everywhere thrive and when men everywhere take serious their lives and what they do, everyone benefits. We spent over an hour talking about a variety of subjects, but I particularly wanted to hear about Will’s journey from a new age mindset into [00:02:00] the faith of Christianity and how his worldwide quest to find truth found him, or he found the gospel at the end.

How it worked out and just the story is incredible, but also some really hard hitting things for you men to listen to and to think about and to discuss and to engage with us about. So without further ado, my interview with Will Spencer.

Will. Thanks for being here today,

Will Spencer: Nate. Thanks. Thanks for having me on

Nathan Spearing : We’ve done a couple video calls together in some super secret recesses of the internet where Global Dominion is being conspired and executed at a macro and micro level but it’s good to have you on life, on Target and we’ve had a lot of discussions point to point over the last couple months, and you think about things deeply, but you don’t just think about things deeply.

You’re a man of [00:03:00] action too.

Will Spencer: Thank you.

Nathan Spearing : Which is, rare in these times. . And and I first reached out to you when you joined the church and then since then, realized how. Long of a journey that has been for you. I think I’ve heard you describe it about you went all over the world looking for truth or trying to find it.

Yeah. And I know that’s a many hour form, but how can you talk to the listeners about that? It’s all I’ve known Christ my entire life. , to me, in some ways I feel like that’s cheap and because I just have experienced it, that’s my tendency. What Jesus Christ did for me.

Isn’t appreciated the same way as somebody who has had a long journey to that point. Expound about on that, your upbringing and bringing you to this chair. . Yeah.

Will Spencer: Thank you. Thank you for that. I guess I would say. , I’ve always been very spiritually and religiously curious.

And the first time that I remember experiencing that consciously I grew up Jewish. I was bar mitzvah and my Torah portion for the Bar [00:04:00] mitzvah was the 10 Commandments. And I didn’t choose that. That was assigned to me. I don’t know by what you know, system, it was assigned. I felt like I got lucky.

Like score, I’m gonna read the 10 Commandments in Hebrew. . And I remember I was sitting with the rabbi doing the study for essentially my sermon baseline, which was like 15 minutes, something like that. 13, 12 year old kid. And I remember the rabbi said the second five commandments are there so that you don’t violate the first five.

Something like that. . And I was like, that’s interesting. I can still picture myself sitting in the rabbi’s office at the other side of his desk. And he, him saying that, I go, that’s interesting. I didn’t realize that there was structure to the 10 Commandments. , I knew what they were. And so that there would be this internal logic behind those rules that wouldn’t necessarily be apparent unless you studied them was the first time that I felt that kind of aha moment.

Now, when I was a, when I was a younger boy, 8, 9, 10 years old in grade school, I was reading all the other kids are reading The Hardy Boys and stuff like that, and I was reading big like books about Bigfoot and UFOs and Lochness Monster. I read all those books [00:05:00] in the school library, like why were they there?

I don’t know. But I read ’em anyway. . And so that took shape over the course of my life, particularly, when I went off to live in San Francisco and the Bay Area with taking classes in college on, Daoism and Yian psychology, and then getting involved in all the new age practices that are in that kind of area, and not ultimately being satisfied with any of them, but continuing to ask the question.

never being like, I’m going to identify as Buddhist, right? , I’m now a Buddhist, or, I never landed in it, it was just this ongoing. Okay, so what’s the next thing? And part of that is, is being in the new age world, that’s how it works, is you’re always looking for the next thing.

. But part of it was, I guess you would say, I really liked getting into these different worldviews and ideologies and like taking them apart and seeing how they work. And right around the year 2000 on Y2K night, essentially I discovered, and there’s a longer story behind this, I discovered a desire to travel around the world.

Now, my family didn’t travel growing up, but it [00:06:00] wasn’t. because I felt any lack, it was just this desire that was implanted in my heart. I really want to do this. And I can’t say where it’s coming from, but it’s the first time I’d ever really wanted anything for myself. . And so as I took these two desires, the desire to explore the outer world through travel and the desire to explore the inner world through all these religious and spiritual practices that took shape over the next 15 or so years, and led me to go traveling for four years overseas from 2016 until 2020.

And so while there, in addition to doing a lot of the new age things you may have heard of like ayahuasca, the plant psychedelic down in South America and yoga and Buddhist meditation retreats, I also got to see a lot of the nations of the world that many Americans don’t. I traveled through China for six weeks and this is totally alone.

Me with a carryon size backpack is all I had. India, New Zealand, Mongolia, again, getting to fulfill this dream of traveling the inner world through religious [00:07:00] and spiritual practice and the outer world. And what I discovered ultimately was there, there’s this big problem called evil, right? And a lot of people aren’t really good at looking at it, and a lot of religions aren’t really good at talking about it.

But from what I had seen and what I had experienced, it was very real. And it wasn’t until it wasn’t until I got back to the United States and read a book by NT Wright called Simply Christian, where he talks about Christ up on the. And this giant wave of evil, this is an image in the book, is coming to crash over him.

And he drove back the wave of evil and defeated evil forever. . And when I saw that, I got it. And then I read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis and the screwtape letters. And I had some friends who lived up in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, who I had met, who had introduced me to Christ a while back.

That’s a whole other story. And then I asked them to baptize me in 2020, in September, 2020, labor Day weekend. [00:08:00] And that was the beginning of me actually finding the answers that I was looking for a very long time. How’s that for a thumbnail sketch? That’s good. Incredibly articulate in probably two minutes as which is true, sweet, true.

Will Spencer form And thank you. I guess a, as you’re talking about that I wanted to ask the question, what was it that made you feel that evil was a real thing, but then also at the same time, scared to ask that? Oh. Oh, sure. You’re scared to ask, or I was scared to ask. I’m scared to ask. Oh, okay.

What the things were, but, yeah, but not I’m asking it, yeah. I learned about like Jeffrey Epstein and that kind of stuff. , I learned that there were individuals in position of power and prestige who were, trafficking children for sex and worse.

And that was an undeniable aspect of reality, that there were rich and powerful people who, they look like normal people on the outside and are doing some of the most unspeakably, horrific things to the most innocent. [00:09:00] wantonly. It’s what do you do with that? And not to mention, getting to travel through some of these countries.

and getting to see corruption, exploitation, pollution. Right. And getting to see it manifest in all these very obvious outer ways and getting to understand a lot of the global dynamics that we don’t actually hear about. , getting to feel what it’s like to be within China and really feel energetically what it’s like to be under the thumb and of an oppressive regime.

, like, when I landed in Beijing, this weight came over my body and I felt it, but I didn’t realize I felt it until I left and I flew to Taiwan. I exited the airport in Taiwan, and as I walked outta the airport turmoil, I went Yeah. And I didn’t even realize I had done that. And it was that weight that I had been carrying all the way through China.

I was like, wow, that was wild. And these things are real. and I didn’t have good answers for them, but I needed to find them, , because I kept looking. Yeah. I feel like friends of [00:10:00] mine that are Christian and that are world travelers have a balanced view of the world in ways that people that have just been in the US haven’t done it.

Yeah. I just had a podcast with this guy Evan, who runs a YouTube channel called Rewire the West, and he’s all, he lives in Italy right now and he’s American, he’s a traveler. . And a lot of Americans at age 18 or in the early twenties will travel and they’ll go overseas to Europe and they’ll be like, oh, it’s so nice over here.

We should live like this in America. You can have wine on the sidewalk and all these liberal social policies, and they go to Europe and they come back to America, liberal. . . But I went the other way. I went to South America, I went to Asia, I went to India. . And I came back super conservative because you see what an incredible blessing it is to live in a country like this that is the aberration, the historical aberration.

Yep. And so the desire and drive to protect it and preserve the aspects of it that are unique and precious. And what I say is that not every country in the world [00:11:00] needs to be like America. . This is the conservative we’re gonna export democracy. You don’t have to do that.

It’s not gonna work. , not every country in the world has to be like America, but the world needs a country like America. And so I defend America for what is the United States for what it is, without insisting that the rest of their world be like us. And that makes me an undesirable for being a nationalist.

Cheers. For sure. Yep. The undesirable will be desirable again shortly. ? Yes. Yes. what was it that Doug Wilson said, right? There’s either tribalism, nationalism, or globalism and neither secular or Christian. Pick one , choose from those. That seems the best, and I thought that was a great breakdown.

Shout out Doug Wilson,

so my travel was briefly as a teenager, barely a teenager to Europe, and saw stuff in London. Went to France, went to Eiffel Tower, all the picturesque things.

And then Guatemala three weeks in Guatemala with some friends of ours that are missionaries, which is a different experience. , Mm-hmm. , and then a [00:12:00] lot of travel to the Middle East. ? Yes. All expenses, paid, vacations, . And so that what you describe about that weight a hundred percent when I land in the Middle East, yeah.

If you are are perceiving it, if you have quieted the inner self that you’re talking about, that inner journey, if you quieted that and you are able to understand and perceive it’s thick there. Yeah. Yeah. And then just the goosebumps and the, when the prayer call goes out that is, oppression, and slavery and seeing its fruit around, and that’s probably a different optic than A lot of people have when they go to those places, but as a Christian landing there, leaving there, landing there, doing it many times and seeing, 10 to 15 different nations and population groups there underneath that school of thought just makes you appreciate it as dire as all sides of the media aisle will make you think, because fear is that, was talking to [00:13:00] a guy that’s, when fear is the message, truth is forfeit and yes. Thinking about that and using that as a metric, are they pedaling fear right now? Okay. It’s not about truth then. . And then ultimately how, when you’re saying it, 2020, will you baptize me? So what’s the time between, you said you’re coming back in, in September of 2020, is your baptism, you’re finishing your travels earlier that year.

Yeah, February. Yeah. So yeah, you read those books, the N T Write book and Mere Christianity when you got Back or, . So between February and September of 2020, were pivotal time for you to process four years of travel, four years of experience. How’d you get that book in your hand? What was the story because that’s significant.

Yeah. So one part of my story coming to Christ is before I went to travel in 2015, I went to a festival called Burning Man. . , is a sort of new age pagan festival, 80,000 people [00:14:00] in the Nevada desert. Happens every year. And the short version is at that festival I found my way into a camp that was doing inner healing stuff.

and went through an incredible experience with them. At the end of that experience, I had a vision of Christ, and I asked, who are you people? Oh, we’re Christians. We’ve been running this ministry for 12 years. They just hadn’t advertised that they were Christian. So they yeah, it’s very powerful.

I have a, I did a podcast about, it was my two year anniversary podcast was interviewing them. Which was very cool. And so they were a group of charismatics, I guess out of Coeur d’Alene. And and One of their leaders had gotten a prophetic word that they needed to go out to Burning Man.

That’s crazy. Why would we do that? Well, I’m just getting a message. That’s what you need to go do. So start looking into it. And so they went and they spent 12 years figuring it out. And they didn’t make a big thing of it because if they had actually made it obvious that it was a Christian camp, they wouldn’t have been accepted by the people there.

You’d have to, they obviously didn’t party or any participate in any of those things. They went and they just came to show Christ’s love to some of the most [00:15:00] lost and broken people. That’s incredible. I just happened to be, and it’s an amazing story. And I’ll send you, I’ll send you the link to that podcast if you want to put it in the show notes, cuz it’s very powerful to hear their side of it.

Um, I was very blessed that they agreed to come. It was the first time they’d ever talked about it publicly was on my podcast. And so I became friends with them and I went to go visit them after Burning Man, I went to go visit them for Christmas that year. And I spent Christmas with them and they were the most warm and loving and good natured and good humored Christians that I’d ever met.

Not the least big dogmatic or judgmental or closed off. Just so incredibly open and I felt truly loved. And it was almost like the first time I’d ever met real Christians before. Now under what occasion would I have done that before? I know that they’re out there, but I grew up Jewish, so I’m not gonna go looking for it.

I went to a Catholic high school, which is not the same. And then I lived in northern California, and so I’m not gonna find a lot of that in Northern California. So I became friends with him and then I went to travel and kept in touch with them while I was traveling.

Meanwhile, as I’m [00:16:00] doing all these crazy things that I’m telling them about, they’re like, what is he doing? They’re praying for me like crazy, and the leader of the camp, a man named Rob. sent me the book, simply Christian for Christmas. This was 2019. I was living in New Zealand, and the book was gonna be shipped to me.

It wasn’t, it ended up at my friend’s house, my friend Jeff’s house. in Northern California, when I returned to Northern California, my first stop was at Jeff’s house. So the very night I got back to the United States after four years overseas, Jeff put that book in my hand. And then I moved back to Phoenix.

I picked up my stuff in storage and moved back to Phoenix. , then Covid started happening. And I have this general rule which kind of helped me figure out what was going on. Everything on TV is bs, COVID is on tv, therefore Covid is BS . Right. That was my general rule of thumb for that.

Yeah. And so as I’m watching all this stuff happen and I’m seeing. tyranny begin to creep in and feeling where things are going. That’s when I’m reading Simply Christian by NT Wright all while this is going on, I’m marinating in [00:17:00] four years of inner and outer travel. I’ve come back to the United States.

I’m alone in a new city and reading simply Christian while I’m doing 75 hard. Actually that was my that was my book, my 10 pages of non-fiction reading a day that I was reading during 75. Hard saw all these things, incredible things kinda came together. Yeah, it’s, I actually hadn’t put that together until now.

Yeah. I think that’s, one of the reasons why I drilled down on that is cuz if you think about it what I take from that is a lot of times when Christians are dogmatic, I feel like it’s because they’ve made it about them. Yes, they’re talking about Christ and they want you to validate them.

and their belief. Yeah. And so they’re saying, because you don’t believe me. And when you really look at somebody and say, it’s so much better with Jesus. Yeah. And I want you to know it, but I can’t make you do it. I can’t make you have that faith.

I can’t make you trust in the truth there. But I can pray. I can be there. And even just to continue to communicate with you over that long of a period [00:18:00] and to still be putting action to it, to still be sending books and for God to cause that, to land in your hand. I mean, there’s a, there’s a lot of people, I’m Presbyterian.

You, you’re in the Baptist circles. Prophetic visions make our denominations uncomfortable. Oh, that was a long time ago. That was what happened for people in the book. It doesn’t happen now. And to just even put it together to be like, Hey, prophetic vision, I’m a Christian because of it and whether or not that equals anymore or what’s the yield of that one man’s faithfulness and following what God is leading him.

And I dunno, , that’s just is really cool. Because they strike me as somebody that as people that believe it to their core. Mm-hmm. And don’t really care if you do for their own benefit or their own, understanding. And that’s powerful, in a sense. And they’re living it over a long duration, , this isn’t microwave, Christianity here, this is long-term discipleship. So how, talk me through. How you’re reading that book? Well, 75 Hard. Let’s do a quick talk about that. So yeah, [00:19:00] I’ve talked about it on my podcast. , can’t promote it enough. And I’ve commented on it I did Best Ranger Competition, which is 60 hours of almost continuous competition. And I’ve done hardest things in the military. 75 hards harder. it is longer. Yeah. And that consistency over time is the magic sauce and understanding when you’re going through it, realizing how much for me is like, all right, I gotta get these workouts in.

I still got stuff done with my business. I still got done with Mike. Like I added an hour and a half of working out, not including hygiene associated with that, working out, and I’m reading and, sometimes, it being 11 o’clock at night and I gotta get three more pages done. I can’t fall asleep. I read in the squat position, like deep squat position, like with the book sometimes just because if I don’t have some kind of physical engagement during this.

But yeah. So talk to me about what, you’re reading that book, so that’s significant layer on top of it. But talk to me about that experience. Yeah, I’m so glad, I’m so glad you asked. I love the story and there’s one [00:20:00] detail that I want to give about the book itself that you’re gonna love.

Before I tell the story on the cover of the hard the hard cover book, there’s a, the path to like this lighthouse. Right. That, okay. That lighthouse is the Cape Riga lighthouse that’s at the northernmost tip of New Zealand. , I had just been living in New Zealand. on and off, right.

For the past couple years while I was traveling. And that particular lighthouse, that particular Cape Rianga was a very special, personally special place for me during my travels. Like one of the most meaningful places that I visited a couple times and there’s some amazing stories. So that book was put in my hands, simply Christian, that validated this whole part of my own life and journey as I was moving back from New Zealand in early 2020.

That’s just one of those things that’s okay, this is, God has, yeah, this is too big. We could take this all the way back about what cover design they were going through at the time and who touched it and everything. At least that was, coming from New Zealand, like [00:21:00] you probably were intrigued at that point.

The title could have been anything. The lighthouse is on the cover. , what’s going on here? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Wow. Very, yeah. It’s on the and the podcast I did with the folks from Idaho Coeur d’Alene, their, they’re called their camp was called Spirit Dream. . I actually realized that at the end of it, it was a very powerful moment for all of us.

To get your question about 75 hard so I was living in New Zealand with a woman who I was deeply in love with, and I thought I was gonna marry. We we weren’t engaged, but that’s the direction I thought we were going. And she also had four little girls who I loved dearly. And New Zealand is of course a beautiful country.

, right? Things like, if you lived in California, New Zealand was the promised land, go west young man. Don’t stop at California, keep going west until you get to New Zealand and then stop there. Right? Yeah. And I love that country. It’s a huge, it was a huge part of my life, but that relationship didn’t work out.

So I had to slowly over the course of months, extract myself from that situation so that I could honor the woman that I loved, honor her daughters, and the [00:22:00] family that had taken me in, and not do violence. Not physical violence, but you know mm-hmm. , emotional violence. But I just being like, okay, I’m out.

It’s not working. I’m out. , I wanted to show gratitude for everything that I had been given by that family. And by the nation New Zealand that was so personal to me. So it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do was leave New Zealand , and , I did it. So as I get back to the United States and Covid hits, I moved into this apartment the day the lockdown hit March 21st, I owned nothing.

I had to I bought a bed and a box spring and a bed frame, and then I had a little wooden table that I used for a bed table. That’s all the furniture I had. And then the world ended. Mm-hmm. , essentially., . . Mm-hmm. . And I have family here in town but no one else I’m really close to. So I’m alone in a new city owning nothing in an empty apartment as the world is shutting down, grieving over the loss of a woman.

I, I was deeply in love with and a nation that I was attached to and four little girls I loved as well. So I was in a lot of pain. And in that moment I remember that I had a [00:23:00] choice. And the choice was I can buy a tv. get get a PlayStation and play video games, drink beer, and eat pizza and medicate my pain.

, but I had decided that I was going to do 75 hard instead. And so when I moved in, I was already 30 or so days into it. And I would’ve had every excuse in the world to do that. But I instead put all this control around myself, over my time, over my energy, over my diet, and that control that I put around myself, not giving myself that wiggle room to cheat at all, might have actually saved my life.

, it might be the greatest gift that I ever gave to myself was doing that because then over the course of the next six months, I lost 40 pounds in six months, obviously longer than 75 Hard. . then in doing that, I discovered that I had a voice and I had something to communicate to men, and I started sharing it in chat rooms and stuff like that.

And men started listening. I wrote a blog post. That was just before I became Christian, called to lose the world and gain my soul about I’ve seen so much of the [00:24:00] world and I won’t be silent in the face of Covid and, black Lives Matter and all that stuff. I’m not gonna be silent. Because I’ve seen too much of the world and you can’t call me those names. And so that went viral and I realized men are listening to what I have to say. And it was out of that, that the renaissance of men, came from, was that realization that men wanted to hear what I had to say and I had my own voice.

And it all came because I made that choice to do 75 hard and to not quit and to not let myself go to my worst side. And I love telling that story because it’s one of those times that I can think about, I gave myself the gift of life. Like obviously Christ and God are a big part of that behind the scenes.

, I wasn’t thinking in those terms at the time. Obviously that was a big part of it. But I remember very clearly making that decision telling myself no. And what came out of that was more than I could have possibly imagined. give a little more detail about that to write the blog post and what was going on.

Even drilling down a little farther. Cause obviously when I did 75 hard, I did almost all the outdoor workouts in solitude in the sense I didn’t have any headphones in and I was rucking in the woods. and [00:25:00] there was like this added layer, but it caused me just so much time of thinking, every day I was gonna be without my phone for 45 minutes and you’re putting yourself through that and even just the difference between your sleep and just physiologically what is happening I just felt like you just see the world completely differently. , which we’ll get into that in the future and a little bit later about the physical aspect of that. But talk just specifically for you, breadcrumb that a little bit more you’re 30 days into it, you moving your apartment you have something to do now for 45 more days.

For sure. You’ve been in a routine and even moving in, like that’s an opportunity to quit. Oh, I just, I moved in, like I had to move some furniture. I had to go get this, like it’s, I didn’t have any furniture to move. I had zero excuse. I guess that’s help. Moved into my apartment.

Congratulations. I’m in my apartment. I have now moved in, yes. Really literally all I owned when I moved into the apartment was by that point was a large suitcase and a small carryon [00:26:00] suitcase and that was it. I had boxes of personal things in storage, but no furniture. I actually forgot as the world was melting down, I had to go to Bed, bath and Beyond, and get like pots and pans and order dishes from Wayfair.

, I’m trying to assemble my life as everyone’s freaking out. about the world ending. Yeah. I was like, I had, and I had completely forgotten that Ikea existed. It’s I need to get furniture and maybe I’ll order some online. And then I remembered Ikea existed and was like, oh wow. What a brilliant idea that was.

so the moving in part, I guess what I remember most was my outdoor workouts was walking cause I would go . I live in the middle of a city, so I’d walk around Central Phoenix where I live and I remember being one Sunday night, this would’ve been sometime in March or April, I would be walking around and this is a pretty busy area that I live in.

, and Phoenix is laid out. flat and it’s laid out like a grid. So when you look north and south or east and west down the street, you can see pretty much miles in either direction. Cause it’s not a very hilly city. , it was one Sunday night, I was walking maybe at the height of the pandemic, [00:27:00] on a Sunday night or something, and there were no cars anywhere.

Mm-hmm. . It was just me walking around. And it was spooky and it was weird. but I kept doing my walks. . Right. And I think the thing for me is, fitness was never a part of my family values growing up. , I was very much a reflective, scholarly kind of kid, not very athletic at all.

Not really athletic family. And so fitness has been a struggle for me and my family for my whole life and travel, what would happen was I would go do some giant outdoor adventure, sailing, mountain climbing, whatever, right. And get really slim. And then I’d go live in the city and then not get really slim.

And I would go, because it’s, when you’re traveling, it’s not like I’m gonna get up today and work out. The point of traveling is to be able to respond to the spontaneity of the moment, not to impose this rigid of discipline. That’s for me anyway. . And so when I got back to the United States and I moved into my apartment, I was like, okay, I have total control over my time.

I have total control over my diet, right? I don’t know anybody. There’s no one for me to go and have takeout with, even if I [00:28:00] wanted to. All the bars are closed. So total control over my time, total control over my diet, total control over my energy. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

It will never get easier than this. . And so I shot my shot in my, own life and Yeah. And and I, I coach men through that now and say, look, you have this chance right now. Don’t waste this moment. Because it’s not easy to do.

It wasn’t easy to do when I had an enviable level of freedom for every man in the world. If you were to look like, that’s an enviable level of freedom that I had in that moment. And it was still difficult to do. , no wife, no kids, nothing like that. And so it is hard. You’re right, it is very hard.

And, but the ability to really show up for yourself as a man for 75 days to prioritize yourself, for yourself is very unfamiliar to us. , but it’s vital that we learn how to do it. And so to take that opportunity to unwind a lifetime of not really caring about my fitness in the way that I needed to, was very powerful.

And I learned a lot from that experience too. I learned a lot about myself. Yeah. And that’s the, one, thing that [00:29:00] people talk about oh, that’s crazy. It’s it’s about starting right where you are in life and setting a trajectory. And that trajectory is essentially that you’re gonna do these basic things Yep.

Every single day. Yep. No compromise. Yep. And and that is life in a sense. That is everything. And that’s why I feel like it’s so powerful about it. And you can walk like you can be. , 150 pounds overweight and do this program. , because it’s a self-paced thing.

The difficulty is not necessarily in the individual intensity of a task, but in the sum of the whole, and it’s pretty crazy. How did you find out about it? How’d you find out about Andy and how did you, like what’s the, because his model, feel like we’re paying his fee right now for sure.

. Yeah. We’re talking about his podcast. And we’ll link that episode in the show notes. But how’d you find it? I’m pretty sure I found it because of Ryan Mickler. , but 99% Sure is because of Ryan mickler, possibly because Sean [00:30:00] Whelan was on Ryan Midler’s podcast. Okay.

That’s my guess. Okay. Yeah. That’s my best guess. Cause I think he was, I think because he, Sean Whelan did it first, and he was massively successful with it. I had never heard of Andy Friel at that point. So I had heard of Sean Wheland and Ryan ler, I’m pretty sure I found it in there. And you were listening to his podcast as like a regular, subscriber, and did you know him like before or this was just cuz I know you’re a little closer with him now.

and I See stuff pop up. Is there was that you’re just consuming his content at that point in time? Yeah, I was just a podcast listener. I wasn’t part of the Iron Council or anything. I just, really enjoyed the podcast because in addition to exploring the world of spirituality and religion, in addition to exploring the world through travel, I also started exploring the world of masculinity in 2001.

And okay, so in 2001 was when I learned that. , the mind of a man, the different pictures of masculinity in the Lord of the Rings was what sparked my interest in the subject. In 2013, I went on the new Warrior training adventure for the Mankind Project, which is a weekend men’s initiation.

And then [00:31:00] that opened my eyes to the world of men’s inner work. And then in 2017, 2018, something like that, I discovered the Manosphere . realized that the whole men’s movement is much, much larger than I realized. And so I started reading all the books to try and understand, because again, I just liked taking things apart with my mind.

. And so I started exploring that and that’s how I found Brian Mickler and started listening to his podcast because I found that at the time he delivered the highest quality product on the subject. He probably still does, I think, he must he’s a master of his craft, for sure.

Yeah. Sweet. And it just, that’s the cool thing about podcasts too, is . that if you’re continuing to consume the right things \ it just continues to give and continues to be exponential. and kind of can essentially lay in the ground for a long time and then It’s a seed that’s sewn mm-hmm. and kind of bare fruit, , that’s just maybe a listener is not super intrigued by that chain of how things work, but I feel it’s awesome to see how the scriptures are, literally weaving together this long [00:32:00] history of a fallen people and a savior, and, relationship with Bashiva is essential, David slipping up and just how God can take.

Fallen people and bring about, an end state and rayhab, and the craziness that goes on there and how you can see God shining through all of that. And the hope that is there is ridiculous. So then, so you said you wrote a blog post and we’ll link that for sure. And I’m pretty sure you just sent that to me too, didn’t you? You texted it to me and my wife and I were talking about you and so yes, I’ve read some of that as well. That’s the one. And you already had the place to post it, or did you build the site and then throw it up there, what was the way to deliver that?

I got a message. I want to get it out there talk about that process, that creative process. I had a travel blog at will spencer.co. And because when I was traveling, I recognized that I was only given the opportunity by a series of circumstances. That was a, a blessing is the best way that I could put it.

There’s a lot to it, but , there’s [00:33:00] a lot of work that went in on my part. But recognition of having the opportunity to do it was very special. And what I didn’t want, what I didn’t want was to just be like posting photos of myself. Look at me having this amazing time , because I was aware that not everyone.

Can do something like that, will ever get the opportunity to, or even has the desire to. Mm-hmm. , many people will never leave their, small town and they’re perfectly happy like that. If you look at the Lord of the Rings , all the hobbits in the Shire. That’s most people, and that’s not an insult.

, it’s just how people live their lives and the desire of Sam Wise Gaji and the Lord of the Rings to see the elves or was it to see an oliphant like that was a pretty grand dream for a Hobbit. Mm-hmm. Bilbo and Frodo Bains are pretty unique as far as Hobbits goes, and that’s probably closer to who I was.

And so what I really wanted to do was I wanted to make sure to bring as much of the traveling experience home to my friends and to other people as I could to really show that, look, if you go to Instagram, you’ll see a lot of people pretending like travel, is this [00:34:00] all sunshine and roses and celebration and freedom?

It’s no I want to show you what it really is, it is also that, but there’s a dark side to it. , a varying degrees, right. Exploitation, oppression, of travelers and just the general uglyness of the world. let’s make the world what it is.

So I invested many years in building this travel blog with my photography and stuff like that on it. Cuz I did travel photography In Landscape for a while. And so I posted the blog post on there and gave it to some chat rooms that I was part of. Some men’s groups that I was part of.

Some guys shared it on Twitter at the time. And I was very fortunate that men really seemed to resonate with it because, he was a man saying, I’ve seen the world, I did the thing. And I can tell you that what they’re telling you now is not true. Cuz I’ve seen it, I’ve seen the truth of my own eyes and I will not be silenced.

And the big reason why I wrote it, what helped inspire it was I had a, an Instagram travel page. , right? , that was just travel photography. It’s at Will Spencer, I haven’t posted on for a while, and everyone at the time was posting these black squares for George Floyd [00:35:00] and people were getting like hate messages if you didn’t do it.

It’s I’ve spent years cultivating this Instagram page. , and I’m not gonna post a black square on there just because you say that I should, I will not be shamed in behaving the way that you think I should. And . so the blog post was my statement back to that about, you’re gonna try and shame me and here’s why you’re gonna fail.

And so that was my statement and response. And it was what men needed to hear at the time, and it’s very clearly what I needed to say. What was the date of that again? I’m trying to put Will Spencer on the in my mind right now. It’s like July 13th, July 15th, 20.

  1. Yes. Yeah. So we’re not to baptism yet. Uhuh, but I was getting there. Yes. I was getting there. I had finished simply Christian. . And then the only other book about Christianity that I knew was Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. And then I read it and that absolutely blew my mind.

And what I’ve said since then many times is that those two books in particular, although not only those two books, but those two books in particular felt like the first time anyone had talked to me about Christianity, like I was [00:36:00] an adult. was like, right. . Yeah. Right. And I got then as a, is a smart dude and CS Lewis as well.

Yes. I’ve read the day the Revolution began and the one that he did about Covid as well. I can’t remember the title of that, but that was nt Right? Yeah. Phenomenal. it was mostly about lament. and not being able to sit in grief and not do something with it. Like when you see in scripture, people sit in lament.

, it’s not like there’s always this, oh, we gotta do this, you gotta do this. This is the next step. It’s just we’re gonna sit in it and we’re gonna be taught by it. And how Christian’s response to Covid was insensitive and created, new forms of atheism because we didn’t know how to lament, we didn’t know how to sit with people that had loss and stuff like that, anyway, it’s a shorter book, but I know enough that I have to pause his stuff and be like, Oh my gosh. That’s, revolutionary and paradigm shifting, . bring us to baptism and then we can get to today.

I love, this is great. you’re wonderful host. Thank you [00:37:00] for asking me these questions just bring a lot of joy to my heart to tell this story. So I booked a flight to see my friends in Coeur d’Alene Labor Day weekend. I don’t remember when I booked that flight, but I did and there was also a moment, so I’d read simply Christian Mayor Christianity and screw tape letters and screw tape letters was like, wow, okay. Yeah. , okay, I get, this is how, evil kind of works. I can see it manifesting. And I was also doing a fiction writing course as I was exploring Christianity, and I remember reading mere Christianity and there was a passage in the book about when you give yourself to Christ.

You receive yourself back renewed. And you, but you no longer belong to yourself. . And as I was exploring that idea, I was in this fiction writing class and I don’t remember specifically what the prayer was, but the feeling was, okay, I’ll give myself to Christ.

And what I got back in exchange for that was I’d never written a short story before. I wrote a beautiful short story . I was like, I don’t know where that came from, but I don’t know that I can even write that today. it was one of those things where it’s yeah, someone could write that off, but I’m not in myself.

I’m not able to write that off. Nor should I. And so by that point [00:38:00] I was pretty convinced I wanted to get baptized, but I didn’t really know what it was. So here’s the thing. as I got to Idaho and spent the weekend with my friends and there was a very famous evangelistic preacher named Ken Fish who was in town He does a lot of touring. He was recently in New York at King’s Church with pastor David Englehart and all that. And so he was there and I got to meet him and we were spending the weekend hanging out and my friends in cour d’Alene had mentioned baptism, but I didn’t really bring it up with them.

And I realized at a certain point that I would have to specifically ask that their expectation wasn’t there. And so sometime on Saturday I think I worked up the courage to actually ask, cuz it was really clear they didn’t assume, even though it had been mentioned before, then they weren’t gonna say, Hey will do you want us to baptize you?

They weren’t gonna, they weren’t gonna do that. I would have to speak up. So I did. And they said, oh yeah, well we can do it on Sunday, no problem. Mm-hmm. . . And so Sunday was a beautiful day, Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, and they drove me to the Coeur d’Alene River after church services that day.

And as I’m in the car, remember [00:39:00] being in the passenger seat and I was feeling very nervous like actively nervous and anxious, and I couldn’t figure out why. I love public speaking. And the anxiety was akin to like, when I’m getting ready to go on stage for public speaking, it was like, I’m not gonna give a speech.

This isn’t like that. This is just me with a group of friends. Where is this anxiety coming from? . I couldn’t place it, but I felt it very clearly. And I remember the walk down to the river and walk me down to the water and I have great video of it. And I remember my friends Rob and GI from one of the guys who was there with me at Burning Man were in the water with me.

And they said a few words and I said a few words. And then. And they put me down on the water

and, I I felt something in my heart. felt something touch my heart.

I came back up, out and I went back onto the beach and just had to sit on a log for a minute. I couldn’t, I didn’t know why. I felt like I had just been through something.

It wasn’t until way later that I figured out what all that was. , [00:40:00] but incredible. Yeah. That was the beginning. . Yeah. I can’t not get emotional thinking and talking about it. , it was just one of those, one of those moments where and in hindsight with two years or so, now it only gets more meaningful because I I can see it as the actual turning point, and that I can unpack some part of what was going on in that moment for me. I can’t not get emotional thinking and, and talking about it. So Thank you. So talk about then now baptism to church membership, , because this is something that’s sticky for men. we’ll have time to talk about that after, but you’ve experienced a lot. You’ve been all over the world. You’ve seen, the good and the ugly. And God has aligned things for you. But then there’s this institution now, like your experience with the gospel to this point is probably as antis institution in a sense. As anything, it’s Christians that are in Burning Man, and they’re charismatic but they’re [00:41:00] real.

And the beauty of the gospel and the beauty of the church as one body is that there’s so many different parts, so many different facets and so many different things that have brought it all together. , pastor Durbin’s, a little bit different kind of guy I would imagine than those people that baptized you.

Yeah, I sometimes wonder what would happen if they got together, but go ahead. Let’s make that happen and and see . Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that’s, just talk me through, because it’s a very real thing that, my faith is private. Jesus destroyed the temple now he lives inside of me.

I don’t need to be a part of this church thing that’s mostly just sinners all being hypocrites and mostly for women, and which all that is true in a lot of ways, but why is it different? Speak to some of that and what’s the process to get from that to now where you are in membership I’m just interested to hear how you made those hops.

I’ve actually thank you for giving the opportunity to think through that because I think I get it now. my [00:42:00] personal. Standpoint, and I think this has probably been always part of who I am, is that if I know the truth, I am therefore responsible for it. . Right? So if I know for example, that something in the, in politics or in the news is a lie, and I know and it’s the truth. I am responsible for speaking the truth in the face of the lie. That’s me. Doesn’t have to be anybody else. And because I spent years studying masculinity and I came to understand the ways that society, civilization culture had systemically dismembered masculinity over the course of say, 150 years. . And that when I reassembled that to myself and I started looking around and started seeing all these other broken men around me, I started speaking up about that, here’s how we got here is men.

Right?. And studying the Jeffrey Epstein kind of stuff, Knowing that’s going on and that there are lies being told about politics. I started speaking up again about that.

And so when I became Christian and [00:43:00] I was able to take all of my experiences in the new age and in these world religions, not because I read a book, because I was the guy in cashmere, on the border between Pakistan and India, sitting on a meditation cushion in the mountains of cashmere.

Right. in early spring. 10 hours of meditation a day for 10 days.


Threw myself into that, you at the, the Kumala Hindu Festival, this once in every four years, Hindu Festival, 190 million Hindus bathing in the river, that was me, right? Like I wasn’t Hindu, but I went to go see

you know,

Will Spencer: drinking ayahuasca in South America. Seven ceremonies in 12 days. The most you can do in a ceremonial context, I was the guy who had gone and done. and I had found holes in all of these religions because I went looking. .

And so now when I discover the truth, and it is the truth, I am responsible for speaking the truth.

I’m responsible for speaking the truth about masculinity. I’m responsible for speaking the truth about the world as I know it. I’m responsible for speaking the truth about what we might call politics, [00:44:00] geopolitics, as I understand it, based on my experience, I can’t not because I’ve been given the gift of this articulation of speech, of a mind that looks for answers, that seeks to penetrate, to understand what the truth of it is.

I was given these gifts. I didn’t earn them, and so what am I supposed to do with them? Remain silent. . And so for me, I believe that’s why God led me to a church like apology with pastor Jeff, and James White that are so outspoken , that I can sit in the pews and hear these men, these accomplished men.

Jeff Durban is an accomplished man. He’s what? He’s 44, 42, something like that. Still can do a kip up, ,

Mm-hmm. , you know,

Will Spencer: from his kung fu training, and James White is this worldwide debater. Like, when I realized what a big deal both of these guys were, I was like, how blessed am I? And then I got to meet the Christians that I did at Burning Man, that they were so firm and so dedicated in their faith as to be able to go into probably one of the most spiritually dangerous mission fields on earth.

If you’re not completely sealed up in terms of who you are and what you [00:45:00] believe. They talk about this like Burning Man may be a peaceful place. Like physically, but on a spiritual level, there’s all kinds of spiritual dangers. So these were people that were going into the, I guess the Christian equivalent of Afghanistan,

Mm-hmm. ..

Will Spencer: Right. Okay. It’s not China. from new age perspective, right. They were deploying, they very much were deploying, like it was a year long planning process. There were specific trainings and protocols that they all followed. It was not casual or willy-nilly.

And so my personal configuration, the way, that God made me is to do and be this guy. Now, that doesn’t mean that everyone has to do, everyone has to be me.

different people are meant to serve in different ways. You don’t all have to be like that, but I get the right to be like I am, right?

The way that God made me and the way that I’m, the way that I’m perfecting to put into service for him. Because , the last thing I’ll say is that, through all my travels, I did so many objectively physically dangerous things and so many objectively spiritually dangerous things.

[00:46:00] Right? And I was brought back safe. , I didn’t have to be, I absolutely did not have to be I wasn’t doing anything reckless, but I was doing dangerous things. , right? Being in a 35 foot sailboat in the middle of the Pacific Ocean in a storm is dangerous.

It’s not reckless. . But people do that all the time. But it was dangerous. And I was brought back and here I am drinking ayahuasca and venturing into the spirit world. And here I am doing these new age practices and sitting with these gurus and all this different stuff. And I was brought back from all of that, why I didn’t earn it and I didn’t earn salvation at all.

It’s a gift. And so all I can do is take everything that I’ve been given and put it into service for the Lord with everything that I have, with everything that I am. . And I, and that is the call. It’s


Will Spencer: this is the Lord speaking to me. Will I gave you everything you ever wanted.

All you ever wanted was to travel the outer world and to travel the inner world. I gave you boast. Those things now serve me. Yes, Lord. I serve And the church enables that being [00:47:00] under the preaching of these guys. Yeah and then there’s community too. You’ve mentioned to me before, you’re sitting with guys you’re discussing things so you found community that enables your mission.

Yeah. Warriors. Yeah. Like you. Yeah. Like not just Pastor Jeff, Toby Sumter, Doug Wilson. , right? Yeah. Like James White is very outspoken. Ben Merkel, very outspoken. These are men that are taking the fight to the culture on the cultures terms. In the culture’s language. of content creation with aesthetics and with gusto and with courage.

I don’t think that everyone needs to fight that way, but we need Christians who fight that way.

Mm-hmm. ,,

Will Spencer: because you can look around and you can see things are burning. , right? So who’s gonna build? And yes, maybe for some people their faith is a private affair. And I honor that and I can’t tell anyone how to practice their fate.

But what I can do is I can light a lantern for Christian men who feel called to fight and say, come and join me. Come and join [00:48:00] Nate. Come and join the Moscow crew and John MacArthur and Tom Asco, and all these different guys taking the fight directly into the heart of culture, bravely singing Psalms excitedly, come and join us and let us fight our way.

I think that’s godly. It must be. . Look Paul went into the synagogues and started a riot. Over and over again. . Yeah. Yeah. You


Will Spencer: Acts as what? Paul walks into synagogue, people get upset, arrest Romans, execute him. Romans like, no rinse, repeat. Right.

Nathan Spearing : Yep. Violating the 11th commandment thou shot. Be nice.

That’s right.

Will Spencer: That’s right. Yeah.

Nathan Spearing : You mentioned that, the pictures of the man and the kind of the realms that you got from Lord of the Rings. You’ve talked to me about it. As the listener assessing themselves as a man and thinking they’re doing pretty good as a man because they’re really good in two of the three major pillars and they’re writing the third one off that they’re particularly not good at as something girly men do. go through Will Spencer, world traveled out of the water. A new man. In [00:49:00] masculinity, you said 2001 until now. ,so a lot longer than I maybe even thought about that word, go down a quick list, the whole man the big buckets, and, then we’ll transition that into kind of a challenge of how you cultivate those, .

Will Spencer: So I had I made an observation a while ago that the people who say healthy at any size have usually only ever been one size

Right? And I guarantee you if. We could all snap our fingers and overnight be placed into a perfectly fit body for us. Doesn’t have to be like Ronnie Coleman or whatever, like whatever a fit body means for us. You could snap your fingers and you get 24 hours in that fit body.

At the end of 24 hours, you go back to the way you were at the end of 24 hours, everyone would be begging to never go back. They would be begging.

Mm-hmm. ..

Will Spencer: And so there are a lot of guys out there


Will Spencer: I’m fine, you actually aren’t fine. You have [00:50:00] no idea how fine you can possibly be. Until you actually get yourself there.

And it doesn’t have to be, Brad Pitt and Fight Club. , it doesn’t have to be Arnold, Schwartz, Andre, like these are movie stars that have all their mules prepared for them and steroids and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm. .

Will Spencer: But it is possible for you to get below 15% body fat

Right. And if you look back at the 1960s, that was just considered an average body. , right?

Mm-hmm. ,,

Will Spencer: and now it’s an aspirational level of fitness. And we can talk about why that is. But the thing is, unless you’re there, you don’t actually know if you’re fine, your mind is not working like it should.

Your heart meaning your emotional function is not working like it should. And if your mind and your heart and your spirit are not working like it should, you’re not living like you should be.

Until you get down to that level. So you may think you’re fine, you’re not actually fine.

And until you get down to that level, you have no idea how fine you can be. And I know this because like I said, I came back from New Zealand, I was 220 pounds, 2 25, and I [00:51:00] started doing 75 hard. While the world is melting down while everyone else is putting on the covid 19, is what they said.

Everyone put on 20 pounds. I dropped it and I got down from 2 25 to 1 75, the lightest I’ve ever been. and I felt incredible. And that was a time when I was the most inspired and that was the time when I was given the renaissance of men as a mission, let’s say. Cuz it was given to And we can talk about that separately, and the way that I read that at the time, and this went to form the foundation of my coaching, was that men are looking for purpose. What’s my purpose? And a man who’s fired up about a purpose can accomplish anything, right?

Whatever that purpose is. And what I realized, and this is my own personal theory, is that when a man is. And you, you said in, in body, soul, and spirit. And I’m familiar with that. With that breakdown, my, my friends in Coeur d’Alene taught that to me. But there’s also an another way to say, your physical body your emotional body, your intellectual body, and your spiritual body.

Now, this is not necessarily scriptural, it’s [00:52:00] just a way to think about the different parts of our lives that interact.


Will Spencer: The different parts of ourselves. And so what I realized is that when a man is healthy and body, mind, heart, and spirit, he has a fit vessel to receive his purpose. So a lot of men are really aimless.

They’re looking for purpose. Well, if your purpose were to actually come to you, could you do anything with it? , can you even know what it is? if you’re physical vessel isn’t fit enough to handle it, and because my physical vessel was fit enough to handle the mission that came my way, I was given as a gift.

And now here, take care of this will. , you’ve, you’re ready to receive this I wasn’t before. So to the man who’s thinking about how to put the pieces together, he was looking for the missing part of his life. Maybe once you actually get yourself. To a high degree of fitness.

And you train for something, train for an amateur boxing fight, train for, a Savage race or a Spartan race or something like that. Train for something meaningful. You train to hike the Appalachian Trail. I don’t know. Pick something, pick a goal and start moving towards it and make yourself into the maximum fitness version to accomplish that.

And then once you get there, then you’ll know whether you’re fine or not. [00:53:00] Until then, you’re just guessing. Until then you are just good enough, . And if you’re happy with just being good enough, okay? But I think you can do better, right?

Mm-hmm. ,,

Will Spencer: I think you can do much better. I want you to do much better.

I don’t want you to just be good enough. I don’t want you to be just good enough for your wife. I don’t want you to be just good enough for your kids or for your boss. I want you to be excellent. I don’t want you to be just good enough for the kingdom. , I want you to be excellent for the kingdom because you are needed Brother

Mm-hmm. ..

Will Spencer: Right? Look, I’m looking at you and so to encourage men in that way. . I think it’s really important because I think a lot of people in the masculinity movement, they’re really good at chastising. No one cares work harder. , and some men need to hear that. Some men absolutely need to hear that iron rod of discipline.

There’s true, but what is more powerful for some, perhaps even many, if not all men, is to speak life into their heart and say, I don’t just want you to be good enough. I want you to be excellent and that lives within you, like it lived within me. Like it lives within you, Nate. It lives within so many men and calling men to [00:54:00] that degree of excellence.

Fires them up. And you mentioned Lord of the Rings. That’s what’s so inspiring about that movie in so many ways. It’s generally not considered okay to cry as a man in public, except in the charge of the Rohe him on the battles of the Peor fields. , where King Theat is, like death.

Everyone’s crying. You guess that’s what we want. . We want that feeling of excellence, of putting our whole self into service of a righteous cause. And if I have to die, and I’m sure you know this, if I have to die on the field of battle, dying for something that I believe in, amen. Praise God.

Hallelujah. Draw swords. . And so let us make such an end. That’s right. That’s right. And so the call towards excellence is a call to fitness and service. And the beauty of Christianity is that it teaches this incredibly paradoxical lesson. not man’s ways, but God’s ways that the highest use of power is in self-sacrifice.

not self-service.


Will Spencer: that once you as a man achieve true power, you give yourself and sacrifice for it, and the world [00:55:00] is redeemed. that’s the message. And so calling men to that gives them the opportunity to experience that. So if they want your help, tell us where can they find you?

Where can they get more of this call and, where can they look you up? How they get in touch with you? What’s that look like? , you can find me@renofmen.com is my website. I offer men’s mentorship programs. And the idea behind the mentorship program is the world says masculinity is toxic.

Everything the world says is backwards. So to me, masculinity is curative. It’s restorative. And so most men don’t need therapy. They need masculinity. They need bounded, disciplined pursuit of meaningful work and life and transformation into the man that they know that they can be. And that clears up so much for men in terms of depression and anxie depression.

is a flattened energy levels and anxieties. I’m not doing what I know I should be doing. And once you start doing the thing, life just starts moving.

Mm-hmm. ..

Will Spencer: So that’s the code, the mentorship that I offer for men. I also have a podcast, Renaissance of Men Podcast.

You can find that by going to Link [00:56:00] Tree slash ren of Men. You can find it on Spotify, apple Fountain, and YouTube. As well as a bunch of other appearances that I’ve been on, like this one at Link Tree slash Renmin. And you can get to my coaching from there as well, my mentorship from there as well.

Awesome. Thank you so much for giving the time and I know. , it relayed the gospel in a completely different facet, a slightly different thing. And I know you probably heard the George McDonald quote about men lifting up a different version of God. . And that if we are lifting up a different version, then there’s also probably something that you can see about God that no one else can, . And so I love this opportunity to see it. I’m just thinking about contrasting the baptism with my own, , it’s just completely different for somebody that has taken the long way around if you will. No, I will and so thank you so much for relaying that and look forward to continued conversation in the future.

Thank you, Nate. I really appreciate it and very grateful to you for this opportunity. And thanks to your listeners as well.

Nathan Spearing : [00:57:00] There you have it. Y’all. My interview with Will Spencer, as always, the books, websites, et cetera that we talked about in this episode can be found in the show notes located@spearing.co. Actually had an in-person conversation with one of my listeners a few weeks ago. They didn’t even know I had a website.

They didn’t know that. For pretty much every episode that we’ve put out, we have full episode transcripts. We. All the associated resources and links from episodes related podcast episodes and interviews that I’ve done and also an email sign up 2023. I intend to be sending out a lot more content via my email list.

You can sign up there and get on the list to receive those as I continue to try to be more like Will as I sit down and intentionally write out longer. Posts on thought-provoking [00:58:00] topics inspired by him and his example. So make sure you check out his website, ran of men.com, and follow him Twitter, Instagram, and his YouTube channel.

Y’all is pretty awesome these days. He’s got some great shorter clips with conversations that he’s had with influential people on his podcast, so go over there and s. Shoot, will a note. Let him know how much you appreciated his comments here on the Life On Target podcast. And as always, share with a friend, a different friend.

Bring some more people into the life on target. Circle y’all and let ’em know what we’re about over here. And as always, have a good one.